Recorded
WOR Radio
New York ~ 1958
Long John Nebel Show
Otis T. Carr & Margaret Storm

interview ~ 11 July 1958 ~ second half

Nikola Tesla
1938
Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
..Listen 11 July 1958 second half
.Margaret Storm~~.~knew Tesla
..Listen 11 July 1958 second half
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla
Podcast Recordings
Early Carr pioneer ~ Major Wayne S. Aho
True Magazine ~ January 1961
True Magazine article published ~ January 1961
Nikola Tesla taught Otis T. Carr... how to capture energy for free.
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Long John Nebel... host this show called... The Party Line
This show has three people on the panel plus the host... all questioning
Margaret Storm... Otis T. Carr... Norman Colton.
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Otis T. Carr
Norman Colton
Margaret Storm
Charles Leedham
Ellery Lanier
Don Dunn
Ellery Lanier
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Otis T. Carr
Margaret Storm

11 July 1958
second half
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Otis T. Carr & Margaret Storm

interview ~ 11 July 1958 ~ second half

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Interview Quotes
Margaret Storm : 0:00:04 You see... the atomic structure... if an individual is going into outer space... the atomic structure must be absolutly clean. Because as Mr. Carr... just pointed out. When you go in... to outer space... when you pass... the a certain atmospheric boundary... then... there is a moment... of transition. If a person is traveling in their physical body. And the physical body is... not physically a... clean... so far as the atoms are concerned. Then it would cause death. in other words... the physical body would simple shatter... in going through this a... moment of transition. 0:00:53 However if... the a... karma... which causes the accumulation in the atoms... has been transmuted... a... then anyone.... with that... that's what we call an ascended body. Then any person with that sort of body... can travel anywhere they wish. But... the cap says... at that point... they don't need a spaceship. They can travel within their own force field... which is what a spaceship is. 0:01:20 A spaceship is a mechanical force field. But we a... we have our own force fields... which operate on exactly the same principle. And a... I believe that explains... a... why Mr. Carr has been successful... in a... developing a... his inventions... because he has followed... universal law... in all respects. And that's the way spaceships are a... a built on other planets... they're built according to natural principle.

Otis T. Carr : 0:01:48 Well... thank you very much Mrs. Storm...

Long John Nebel : 0:01:48 Get a little closer to the microphone.

Otis T. Carr : 0:01:50 I would like to... call attention to our brochure. Which... as you know... was put into process last June of 1957. In the closing pages we... a... carry a paragraph... and we live by the... statement of this paragraph. And if it a... if it's not out of order... I'd like to read it. It's the policy of O.T.C. And it has been since we were... conceived... and it states this... Imagination and creative ability are among our assets... for which no definate limit exists. The creator of the Universe has a complete monopoly on power... atomic or otherwise. 0:02:37 Many lasting inventions... originate in the mind of individuals... from all levels of society... of all degrees of temperament... thus discovery can come from meek and humble sources... as well as from the chambers of wisdom. A new age of energy application is upon us... and understandable knowledge of spiritual transition and material transmutation is at the threshold. This new age of science... discovery and adventure is indeed thrilling as we find ways... to realize... that energy is perpetual... matter is perpetual... and live is perpeual.

Charles Leedham : 0:03:16 Incidently... I should a... break in and offer a public apology to Mrs. Storm... because as she says... as an author and myself... I know that if someone took the manuscript in my book and read a couple of sentences out of context... they might sound very funny... and a... I do apologize mam.

Margaret Storm : 0:03:32 Thank you

Norman Colton : 0:03:33 Well... while apologies are going around... as the... party responsible for getting these... a... review manuscripts into being... and into Long John's hands... in time for the... members of the panel to... read them... and have some... general acquaintance at least with them. I'll admit... that a... while we work... day and night... to... try to get them up here a few days ahead... they were only delivered to us from the printer... at about a... two o'clock this afternoon... and we brought them up here of course... some hours before show time... but these people did not have access to them until... as John said a... minutes prior. So that... even had they wanted to read the entire manuscript... they could not have... up to this time.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:22 Yes... I'll agree with you a... Mr. Colton. It makes it... rather difficult. I'd like to take a moment to talk... with Mr. Storm again.
I would also like to apologize... because... for a moment Mrs. Storm I... broke-up when... Charles read that. The first part of the... a... the first sentence there... and a... it... I don't know... it just... touched me off a little bit there.

Margaret Storm : 0:04:49 laughs first... then... all laugh

Long John Nebel : 0:04:50 I would like to (?).

Margaret Storm : 0:04:51 laughs... all laugh

Long John Nebel : 0:04:54 I... I would like to ask you this Mrs. Storm... I think you just mentioned something about... the... a... manner of a... manufacturing spacecraft on other planets... I think you told us something about that... the method of manufacturing... is that right?

Margaret Storm : 0:05:14 Yes... I mentioned it... uh huh.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:17 Now... where do you get this... a... information?

Margaret Storm : 0:05:23 Why... a... it a... lot of it comes from the a... gentleman... a... Mr. a...

Long John Nebel : 0:05:29 Matthews?

Margaret Storm : 0:05:29 No. Mr. Leedham... is that still the name?

Charles Leedham : 0:05:31 That's right... yes.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:32 Charles Leedham... yes.

Margaret Storm : 0:05:32 Yes. The gentleman... he just mentioned... a...
El Morya... the Chohan of the First Ray.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:39 A...

Margaret Storm : 0:05:40 These are... these are... (?)... who are connected wtih our planet... and a... other planets.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:46 Well... let me ask you this... is this... similar to... a... a... indian guides... and mentors... as... ?

Margaret Storm : 0:05:54 No.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:54 ... as Mark Probert (sp) would... would talk about...

Margaret Storm : 0:05:56 No. Absolutely no connection.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:57 ... or Mrs. Brady... or?

Margaret Storm : 0:05:59 Absolutely no connection... what so ever.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:01 I didn't mean a connection... but his mentors or anything like that...

Margaret Storm : 0:06:04 No.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:04 ... but is this a matter of a medium going into a trance?

Margaret Storm : 0:06:05 No... no... no... I do not a... hold... with such things at all. This has no connecton. That is a... connected with the astroplane... and a... we do not deal with that. That's...

Long John Nebel : 0:06:18 You mean... Probert (sp) and Mrs. Brady...

Margaret Storm : 0:06:20 No.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:20 ... are dealing wtih the astroplane?

Margaret Storm : 0:06:21 Any... any...

Long John Nebel : 0:06:22 Any Medium.

Margaret Storm : 0:06:22 Any Medium. There are only two a... people... a... following one class or the other. They can take up... mediumship... or they can take up... discipleship. And you can't do both. You can't have both. Mediumship deals wtih the astroplane... only with that... we have nothing to do.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:38 Well... evidently... you've... you said something that I... that... just didn't hit home with me. I'm... I'm still trying to... to find out... where you get this information. You've told me... who you get it from...

Margaret Storm : 0:06:51 uh huh

Long John Nebel : 0:06:38 ... who gives it to you. But you don't tell me how?

Margaret Storm : 0:06:54 Well... it comes in... in various ways... a great deal of it is published. And a... may be obtained... in a... magazines and books and so forth. A...

Long John Nebel : 0:07:05 You mean... that particular line that Charles Leedum... read originally... a... that information has been published in books or magazines?

Margaret Storm : 0:07:16 Well... a great deal of... information has certainly been published in books and magazines about... El Morya. And all the other adducts who were Chohan of the race. A Chohan simple means... a... a great... a... adduct or a... a... a... in other words... this... Earth is NOT... just simply... just spinning around here... under it's own power...

Long John Nebel : 0:07:41 uh huh

Margaret Storm : 0:07:42 ... a... it is under a system of... of government. Which a... a... is sometimes referred to as... the... as the government of the Solar System... the Solar System in turn... are under...

Long John Nebel : 0:07:53 When you say the government... are you referring to... the people in Washington?

Margaret Storm : 0:07:58 No... no... nothing to do... nothing to do with Washington. laughs... I am referring to a... to a... universal... a... government. If you wish to call it a government... it's not the government in the sense that the a... a... that the government at Washington... functions. I mean... it is not a fiscal affair. But a... the cosmic rays... there are seven... a... seven cosmic rays a... connected with this planet.

Long John Nebel : 0:08:24 With... with the Earth?

Margaret Storm : 0:08:26 With the Earth... yes

Long John Nebel : 0:08:27 Seven.

Margaret Storm : 0:08:27 Seven...

Long John Nebel : 0:08:28 What about other planets... like Venus and Mars... do they also have seven?

Margaret Storm : 0:08:31 A...

Long John Nebel : 0:08:32 Or more or less?

Margaret Storm : 0:08:33 Venus has twelve... and

Long John Nebel : 0:08:36 Is there a reason?

Margaret Storm : 0:08:37 Yes... there is a reason... because Venus a... is a... the people on Venus are much more highly evolved. The planet is a... a... much nearer the completion of its evolution. And a... contrary to a...

someone : 0:08:53 coughs... coughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:08:53 ... the a... belief of astronomers... Venus is not... in this Solar System... and neither is Mars. These Solar Systems... are... so to speak... a... stacked up... one on top of the other... you might say. And Venus... the Earth and Mars happen to be the forth planet out in each case from their respected Sun.

someone : 0:09:14 coughs... coughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:09:16 We do not see the Sun... on a... her Sun... a... around which... Venus revolves or which Mars revolves... because of the adjustment of our physical eyesight. Now let me see... you asked if these things were...

Long John Nebel : 0:09:30 Well I'll try... at this moment I'm... very confused. I'm not even going to ask you anything about the twelve and the seven.

Margaret Storm : 0:09:36 laughs...

Long John Nebel : 0:09:36 But I'm...

Margaret Storm : 0:09:37 laughs... Well...

Long John Nebel : 0:09:37 I'm... going to add them up and play that number tomorrow. laughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:09:40 laughs...

Long John Nebel : 0:09:41 That's the number... maybe... believe me.

someone : 0:09:41 coughs... coughs...

Long John Nebel : 0:09:44 Get on that one. What I do want to ask again... I wonder if you can tell me... in... two and three syllable words. Stick to two syllable words if possible. How do you get this information?

Margaret Storm : 0:09:59 Well... I can only repeat... that a... a great deal of it is available... in a... in books... which have been published over...

Long John Nebel : 0:10:07 No... in other words... didn't you...

Margaret Storm : 0:10:08 ... a matter of a century or so... ... and also it's available in... magazines... which are currently published... month by month. Some of it is available...

Long John Nebel : 0:10:18 I don't... apparently I haven't made myself clear... where is the line? I'm... I'm not going to read this.

Charles Leedham : 0:10:26 Well let me... a... get a question in here... Mrs. Storm... that is... I hope you will pardon me... if I find this title a little humorous... because I have never run into this before... not the title of Mrs. Storm... but the title of... Chohan of the First Ray.

Margaret Storm : 0:10:38 Well...

Charles Leedham : 0:10:38 I... I am amused...

someone : 0:10:39 coughs... coughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:10:40 ... maybe you just haven't...

someone : 0:10:40 coughs... coughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:10:40 ... maybe you just haven't... been reading the right book.

Charles Leedham : 0:10:42 This is... this is probably it.

Margaret Storm : 0:10:43 laughs...

Charles Leedham : 0:10:43 My... my a... reading has been certainly limited in the past. But if... I... I find the titles... of many of the... sort of earthly lodges... a little humorous at times... the grand commanders... and so forth... and various things. But if Mr. El Morya came to my office and my secretary said... the Chohan of the First Ray is here to see you... I might a...

Don Dunn : 0:11:02 laughs...

Margaret Storm : 0:11:03 Well... in the first place... he wouldn't be coming to your office. And in the second place... if he did... for any chance come... by any chance come... I am sure that he would not introduce himself in that way. Because he would know that you would not understand.

Don Dunn : 0:11:20 Mrs. Storm... Perhaps I can ask an accurate question here.

several : 0:11:25 laugh...

Don Dunn : 0:11:28 You...

Charles Leedham : 0:11:29 You go to a better library than I do Don.

Don Dunn : 0:11:33 You've... you have just said that... Venus a... is not... part of our Solar System... and... I... I would like to know simply... where you got this information?
I mean...

Margaret Storm : 0:11:43 Well... a...

Don Dunn : 0:11:45 Scientific text books says... Venus revolves around our Sun.

Margaret Storm : 0:11:47 I a... I said... before I made that statement... that... contrary to the belief of our astronomers... now a... I have said... about a... three times I think... and I guess I'll have to repeat it a forth... that... all of this information... is available... in... published books... magazines... weekly bulletins... and so forth.

Long John Nebel : 0:12:12 I guess the question...

Margaret Storm : 0:12:12 It's just a matter of reading... right.

Long John Nebel : 0:12:13 I guess the question should be then... where... are the people... who write these articles that appear in the magazines... get the information? I hope that they wouldn't say... that they're getting it from other books and magazines.

some : 0:12:32 laughs

Margaret Storm : 0:12:33 laughs. Why a... it is step down... I mean a... a great deal of the information that I am referring to... is written by such a man as... Morian Gralpf (sp).

Long John Nebel : 0:12:47 Is this a man... an earthling?

Margaret Storm : 0:12:50 He... yes... he is what you... yes... he a... is a... he lives here... and a...

Long John Nebel : 0:12:55 When you say here. In... in...

Margaret Storm : 0:12:57 On the Earth. No... no... he does not. He lives in... India... up above... Dasheli (sp)

Long John Nebel : 0:13:04 Do you have any idea... about how old this man is?

Margaret Storm : 0:13:08 Why I believe he is... a few hundred years old.

Long John Nebel : 0:13:10 A few hundred years old.

Margaret Storm : 0:13:11 Yes

Long John Nebel : 0:13:13 Have many people... a... had the opportunity of interviewing this man?

Margaret Storm : 0:13:18 I understand... a great many have... yes. I believe that a... a... he has spent considerable time in England... and in other countries. And I believe... he is quite well known. Naturally he a... only... is known among persons who understand these matters and are interested in them. He is not a... a going around a... and making his a... knowledge public to those who do not... have any interest in the subject.

Otis T. Carr : 0:13:44 May I make an observation...

Long John Nebel : 0:13:46 Mr. Carr... please... yes.

Otis T. Carr : 0:13:48 The arcane... the mystical... and the esoteric... are never secret. However... obtaining... this information is a matter of following a path. And therefore... a... this information is always available. And any... seeker... any neophyte... who tries... or is interested in learning... will be guided... with tremendous kindness... care and love. The answers... can not always come so quickly.

Long John Nebel : 0:14:26 You sound like you're pretty familiar with this? Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:32 The great Mr. Tesla... enlighten us in many ways...

Long John Nebel : 0:14:35 We weren't talking about Tesla at the moment...

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:37 Well... he enlighten...

Long John Nebel : 0:14:38 We were talking about this man in India.

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:40 Now Mr. Tesla himself...

Margaret Storm : 0:14:41 He was a friend of Tesla's... laughs...

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:43 Was one of the...

Don Dunn : 0:14:43 He was... this man...

Margaret Storm : 0:14:45 Tesla... knew all of these things.

several : 0:14:47 laughter... clapping...

Norm sound man : 0:14:49 That's the... oh if we only had television.

Long John Nebel : 0:14:52 Yeah... we only had picture radio.

someone : 0:14:53 It's the funniest thing.

Long John Nebel : 0:14:54 This is the funniest thing... I've ever seen. Even... even a... even Norm a... flipped when he...

several : 0:15:00 laughter...

Charles Leedham : 0:15:03 You gota describe...

Long John Nebel : 0:15:04 Well... we gota describe what...

Norman Colton : 0:15:05 While you fellows are a... are smothering these laughs for a moment... a... it's very interesting to me... to see and hear what is going on. And I do flip occasionally... because a... I have a funny bone like anybody else. And while a...

someone : 0:15:17 coughs...

Norman Colton : 0:15:17 ... under the title of sales engineering... most of my work deals with... twenty million dollars... and... electromagnets... and wires and markets... and motivation research... and all of the other things that go into it. In the course of a... learning... and a... preparing myself to... deal with these matters... and checking out the sources of information... is part of the research. I've had a... many very interesting surprises in the past year... among which... 0:15:49 I find that a... no living scientist... or no scientist of recorded history... has... created... any living thing... even such a simple living thing as a... ameba... the simplest of all forms of life. And yet as a... Mr. Carr has pointed out to me... and as I have... read more about... in various books... such... primitive forms of life... or as we term them primitive... as the... crustacea. When they loose a member... are able... of their own body processes... to grow a new member. 0:16:35 Even though... in some cases it is highly complex... like the... fore claw of a lobster. And so... as... Mr. Carr has also pointed out... maybe the only reason we can't grow a new arm... when we lose one... is... because we have so much sense... we know we can't do it. The lobster grows a new arm... because he hasn't got enough sense to know he can't. Some of these things... in... their mystification of a... mind... neophyte and mind. Have... left that line... wide open... for... more investigation... and hope for better understanding of some of these... things you are reading about... out of Mrs. Storm's book. Instead of a... agnosticism... I have switched a... all the other way around... to... an attitude of... believing... what I have not seen disproved.

Charles Leedham : 0:17:37 I still think...

Long John Nebel : 0:17:37 That's an interesting statement... to say the least.

Charles Leedham : 0:17:40 But don't a... don't disappoint the people by not telling them what Don did...

Long John Nebel : 0:17:44 I think you should.

Charles Leedham : 0:17:44 ... that was beautiful.

someone : 0:17:45 chuckles...

Long John Nebel : 0:17:45 Yes

someone : 0:17:45 laughs...

Long John Nebel : 0:17:46 I think you should.

Charles Leedham : 0:17:47 Do you want me to do this?

Long John Nebel : 0:00:00 Yeah.

Charles Leedham : 0:17:48 Well... when Mrs. Storm... said that a... this several hundred year old gentleman...

Long John Nebel : 0:17:53 This is WOR Radio... your station in New York... 710 on the dial.

Margaret Storm : 0:17:59 Morya

Charles Leedham : 0:18:00 Oh... this is Morya.

Don Dunn : 0:18:01 El Morya... yeah...

Charles Leedham : 0:18:02 The very same Morya...

Margaret Storm : 0:18:02 El Morya

Don Dunn : 0:18:03 Chohan of the First Ray.

Charles Leedham : 0:18:04 When he said that... she said that... Morya was a friend of Tesla... Don here... with a perfectly straight face... picked up the book on Tesla... and started looking in the Index.

several : 0:18:11 laughter...

Charles Leedham : 0:18:13 (?)(?)(?)

Margaret Storm : 0:18:15 He can't find... Morya... or Matthews... or Carr. laughs...

several : 0:18:19 laughter...

Don Dunn : 0:18:20 Carr... Mr. Zarr... who sent the telegram in there...

Margaret Storm : 0:18:23 laughs...

Norman Colton : 0:18:24 (?) a deciple either.

Margaret Storm : 0:18:24 laughs...

Norman Colton : 0:18:25 Mr. Tesla... had a lot of... unknown friends.

Margaret Storm : 0:18:28 chuckles

Long John Nebel : 0:18:29 I'm sorry to inturrupt at this time... but we have a... little business to... take care of. Otis T. Carr and Norman Evens Colton.
Mr. Carr... is the President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. Mr. Colton... is Director of Sales Engineering. Ellery Lanier... the Fact Editor of Fantastic Science Fiction... was going to join us... but unfortunately he is ill.
0:18:57 We hope that maybe he's at least listening... and maybe enjoying. Charles Leedham... author and TV producer is with us. Mr. Leedham is the... author of the book... that will soon be available in your book store... published by... Scribner (sp)... titled... Dog Obedience Training. And Don Dunn... of Television Age is with us. 0:19:22 And now back with our guests of the morning. Don... I think... you're looking through... Mr. O'Neill's book. And a... you've heard some of the... comments that a... some of the statements that have been made by... Mrs. Storm. Have any of you had a... any questions?

Don Dunn : 0:19:46 Not a... on Morya right... right now. I... I would like to get back... to the a...

Long John Nebel : 0:19:52 Maybe you just accept this?

Don Dunn : 0:19:55 I... I have the feeling John... I wouldn't be able to get much that I would understand. By... by... by... asking... asking further questions on... on... on that. I would like to get back to the a... OTC X-1. Going back... to the brochure again. Mr. Colton... I... I imagine you wrote the sentence at the top of this page... which says in... nice red letters... We have invented a fourth dimensional space vehicle. I would like to know... in what way... the OTC X-1 is a fourth dimensional vehicle? I would like to know... just what this means?

Norman Colton : 0:20:35 I would like to a... shunt that question off to Mr. Carr. Because as I have preface many of my remarks... I have little education in the physical sciences... I'm trying to grow with (?). My introduction to Francis Bacon about a year ago and his twenty-seven prerogative instances of nature... set me a course that will probably... take a... rest of a life time to catch up with.

Don Dunn : 0:21:04 Before Mr. Colton... now... when we were talking about the figures a... you were... you were reading... various figures from a magazine... on the cost that... was going to a... involve in building a... satellite and getting a man to the Moon. You mentioned... that these... the companies that were going to... build these... a... had high figures... because they were working with... with principles... I believe you said that they knew little about... was... was that the... ?

Norman Colton : 0:21:31 I said... I... presume that because they... set these... a... blue sky figures... on their... projected accomplishments... that they didn't know how they were going to go about them... or what they were going to use to do them with. We know exactly... what our components consist of... and what they cost... down to the... per pound price of... copper... iron... how much it cost to wind a coil... how much it cost to turn out a Utorn Electrical Accumulator... on a lathe.

Don Dunn : 0:22:13 I... I... I just wanted to say... that... in the... in the article on the... Air Force Dinosaur ship... that is being built. It says right here... the Dinosaur... is a boost glide vehicle... designed to use both... aerodynamic lift... and centrifugal force. The principles of aerodynamic lift... I'm... I'm sure you... are well aware with... that is... what holds an airplane up. And centrifugal force... a... the plane is obviously intended to... a... be caught... in the gravitational pull... and... and orbit a... in Space. Now... in the... page here on the a... OTC X-1... it does not say... it is using... aerodynamic lift... it says... the... Utron Electric Accumulator generates its own power... which is electromagnetism and electromotive force. I... I just wondered... can these principles be... explained as easily as aerodynamic lift?

I believe that explains why Mr. Carr has been successful in developing his inventions because he has followed universal law in all respects. And that's the way spaceships are a built on other planets they're built according to natural principle.
call attention to our brochure. Which as you know was put into process last June of 1957. In the closing pages we carry a paragraph... and we live by the statement of this paragraph. And if it's not out of order I'd like to read it.
Return of the Dove
review manuscripts
delivered from printer to the Party Line WOR Radio
they were only delivered to us from the printer at about a two o'clock this afternoon...
he just mentioned
El Morya the Chohan
of the First Ray.
there are seven cosmic rays connected with
this planet.
because the people on Venus are much more highly evolved. The planet is much more nearer the completion of its evolution.
Venus is not in this
Solar System and
neither is Mars.
We do not see her Sun which Venus revolves
or which Mars revolves because of the adjustment of our physical eyesight.
pardon me if I find this title a little humorous... because I have never run into this before not the title of Mrs. Storm
but the title of
Chohan of the First Ray.
you have just said that Venus a is not part of our Solar System and I would like to know simply where you got this information?
The arcane the mystical and the esoteric are never secret. However obtaining this information is a matter of following a path. And therefore...
The great Mr. Tesla... enlighten us in many ways...
The great
Mr. Tesla enlighten us in many ways...
He was a friend of Tesla's
Tesla knew all of these things.
started looking in the Index.
He can't find
Morya
Matthews or Carr.
The two books published months after Tesla died...

both omit Tesla disciples
Arthur H. Matthews
Otis T. Carr

Those are...
John J. O'Neill's book
Prodigal Genius
Margaret Cheney's book
Tesla Man Out of Time

Big Point
See 0:02:31
in the first half
of this interview
Why I believe he is
a few hundred years old.
Don I think you're looking through Mr. O'Neill's book. And a you've heard some of the comments some of the statements that have been made by Mrs. Storm.
We know exactly what our components consist of and what they cost down to the per pound price of copper iron how much
it cost to wind a coil
how much it cost to
turn out a Utorn Electrical Accumulator on a lathe.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:07 I think so.

Norman Colton : 0:23:08 You made the... tremendous big question of many parts... of before I turn it over to Mr. Carr... a... there are a few things...
I think I do know about these forces and their functions. In the first place... this... a... term... a... centrifugal force... has been misused and misunderstood very extensively. The a... satellite vehicles... that are orbiting now around this planet... are usually said to be orbiting... because of centrifugal force. And this is not so. They are describing... an orbital path... that is influenced partly by centrifugal force... but the force that keeps them in motion... is
the free space energy... that is the... propellant fuel of Mr. Carr's devices.

Don Dunn : 0:24:09 But I understood... the... the force that kept the satellite in motion was... was the... a... first push... that's... that's given by the... third stage on the rocket. The... the fact that the... this a... free space motion... is a first... first I've heard.

Norman Colton : 0:24:26 Yeah well... that's why I think this is a good opportunity to air this a... question... and it's proper answer... because that is a common misconception. The first push... and Newton's law which a... explains what is happening... a... stops right there... excuse me... at what is happening... and not how... it is happening... or why it is caused to happen. The object is set in motion... and is put into orbit... because of its push. But... if you turn in your brochure there... to the... insert fly leaf... you will read the... a... explaination and the... basic law which... Mr. Carr first published with this brochure... and which to my knowledge... is the first publication... of the physical fact... and the univeral law... by which these devices are propelled in this orbit.

Don Dunn : 0:25:32 As... as I said... the... the reason I... I directed these questions to you Mr. Colton... was... I... understood that you had done the actual writing... a... on this. Now... now perhaps we... we can get... a...
an answer from Mr. Carr as to... a...
the propulsion unit... in the OTC X-1?

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:49 The technical part of these... as relates to the science... as directed by me to Mr. Colton. In all of these writings and in all of our literature related to science. As relates to our particular devices... which is... the Utron Electrical Accumulator and the Carrotto Gravity Motor. You asked... first... about the... a... fourth dimensional... and this to us is very simple. Because we say... that the fourth dimension is defined by the curve. The... dimensions of pressure are straight line. And the dimension of motion is a curvature. There are three straight lines of dimension... the horizonal angle... the vertical... and in motion... they are the curve. So therefore... it is... fourth. Now when we say... it's a fourth dimensional vehicle... it's because it's... completely round and completely square.

Don Dunn : 0:26:47 The vehicle is completely round... and completely square?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:50 This power unit. Yes.

Don Dunn : 0:26:53 I...

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:54 That's what gets it up in the air.

Don Dunn : 0:26:55 Frankly... I... I... I do not understand... how it can be... completely round and completely square?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:02 This... in it's... angular dimension...

Long John Nebel 0:27:06 Mr. Carr has a model of a... one of the units.

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:10 In it's angular dimension... it is completely square. In it's curved dimension... it is completely round.

Don Dunn : 0:27:16 I see. (?) Mr. Carr... there... there is a statement right here... that a... frankly to me... sounds unfinished. It says... a... let... I'm... I'm reading this... from your brochure again... Some (?) independently made by qualified engineers... at one of American's leading plants... it was estimated... that a small model... only four inches in diameter... produced energy equivalent to one thousand tons.

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:45 uh huh... of pressure. Now... a...

Don Dunn : 0:27:48 It... it... it... it does not say... of pressure. It says... energy equivalent to... one thousand tons.

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:53 Well... the word pressure is... was meant.

Don Dunn : 0:27:56 I see... was.

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:56 That's right... uh huh.

Don Dunn : 0:27:57 I... I did not know... that energy was measureed in... in weight.

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:01 Well... a... it takes energy to move weight... so it can be measured in it.

Don Dunn : 0:28:10 uh huh... I'm... lost.

Charles Leedham : 0:28:13 I am with you...

Long John Nebel : 0:28:13 Gentleman...

Charles Leedham : 0:28:14 ... lost with your...

Long John Nebel : 0:28:15 Well... don't be lost... we're not going to be lost... I want everybody to... hold everything.

Don Dunn : 0:28:19 I'll take a vote.

Charles Leedham : 0:28:21 Can I... a... oh... excuse me Don.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:22 Well... do you have a...

Charles Leedham : 0:28:23 Well... this is a... moderately complicated thing.
I don't know if we can fit it in before the coffee break.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:28 Well... I... I was wondering if... maybe we better a... take the break now. Because I know that everybody is very anxious to a... a... to get a chance to ask... a... questions.

Charles Leedham : 0:28:40 I've got a couple of rip doozers here... but they're a little... take set up time... you know.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:46 Let me take just a moment first to... before we... get back to this discussion... because I have something to peddle... WOR Radio... 710 on the dial... in New York. We're talking this morning with Mrs. Margaret Storm... author of the new book titled... Return of the Dove. Ellery Lanier... Fact Editor of Fantastic Science Fiction... was suppose to be with us this morning... but... he is ill... we hope he is listening and... maybe he feels a little bit better. Charles Leedham... author and TV producer is with us... and Don Dunn... of Television Age. We're sitting around this morning talking with... Norman Colton... and Otis T. Carr. 0:29:31 I have a couple of telegrams here... here's one from... Maplewood... New Jersey. Everything all lright... a... Doc Neilson? I just mentioned... I did... yes. This is WOR Radio... your station in New York... my name is Al Neilson... filling in for Long John.

some : 0:29:48 chuckle

Long John Nebel : 0:29:50 Maplewood, New Jersey... from Jerry Gilbert... Vanguard... given final push by spring release by fuse... not by a third stage.

some : 0:30:00 chuckle... oh my...

Long John Nebel : 0:30:02 Jerry...

Charles Leedham : 0:30:02 That's a good idea.

Long John Nebel : 0:30:04 Jerry...

Don Dunn : 0:30:06 John... I think a... there is possible a spring or a... a fuse arrangement that a... get the Vanguard... separated from... from the third stage. But it's the... eighteen thousand mile and hour push... is certainly from the third stage... not from the spring.

Long John Nebel : 0:30:20 So... I'm not going to argue the point with you... a Don. You possibly know more about it than I do. But I understand... that they... a... they went to with rubber bands.

Don Dunn : 0:30:29 Well... that isn't likely...

some : 0:30:30 chuckle...

Charles Leedham : 0:30:31 The rings...

Don Dunn : 0:30:32 ... sling shot arrangement.

Charles Leedham : 0:30:33 ... security precautions... or they don't want news men to see the guys... (?)... winding that little key in the side... now that would be very embarrassing if they saw that.

Long John Nebel : 0:30:41 (?)(?) that's a twenty-four hour spring... you know... on that.

Charles Leedham : 0:30:44 So they can wind it up the night before.

Long John Nebel : 0:30:45 Yeah... all right... that's... that's life. Here is a comment from... Cramford New Jersey... This mornings program is putrid. Harry J. Demski... thank you Mr. Demski.

several : 0:30:56 laughter...

Long John Nebel : 0:30:57 We hear them all... we don't care.

several : 0:30:58 laughter...

Long John Nebel : 0:31:01 From (?) and Mr. Dumski. Here is one from... Yonkers. This gentleman has requested me... a... not to use his name. I happen to know who the man is... so... we will respect his... wish... and we will not mention his name. Long John & Mr. Leedham... or is this Mr. Leedham stuff. Could there be... a symbolism in Mr. Carr's device? Could a square talk in circles?

several : 0:31:29 laughter...

someone : 0:31:31 Very good... very good.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:35 That's excellent. I think we should bring our listeners up to date. Otis T. Carr is the president... of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. O.T.C. Enterprises... is an organization... we are told that their main office is located in Baltimore. And I have in front of me... a brochure that's been published by... the O.T.C Enterprises Incorporated. 0:32:12 They... claim that they have the know-how... to manufacture... a circular foil craft... that will go to the Moon... in a period of five hours. And... if you don't want to stay up there... you can orbit around... and come back five hours later. They will build this craft... for twenty million dollars. If you place an order... with O.T.C. Enterprises... for two... the second one will only cost... four million dollars. Each additional one... four million dollars... but the first one... twenty million. 0:32:57 They also... intend to manufacture some other devices... such as the... Carrotto Gravity Machine... the Utron... the Utron Electric Battery... some solar energy devices... electromagnetic machinery... and the... the Gravity Electric Generator. 0:33:28 Now I imagine some people who are listening this morning... maybe you've joined us for the first time... you're wondering if we're... pulling your leg a little bit... if this for real... or what? Well... I can assure you one thing... that we have... a number of models up here. And we also have a... a beautiful painting... of a... the O.T.C. plant... the research buliding... and various other buildings... which a... haven't been built up to this date. But a... I imagine they... will be... as soon as the organization continues. In fact a... I've just received a... a telepathic communication from William E. Fetsom Jr. (sp) and a... he tells me it is not a painting... it is a rendering. Meaning to tell (?) I guess. 0:34:28 So that will bring you up to date. And from this point... oh I think we'd also should add that... Mrs. Storm... the author of the new book... Return of the Dove... is a lady that... believes... that she knows people... who are able to communicate with Tesla. Mr. Tesla died... in 1943. Am I correct in making that statement?

Margaret Storm : 0:34:59 Well... a... let me see...

Long John Nebel : 0:35:00 I... I was thinking in terms of... a... a... I was thinking about Matthews up in Canada.

Margaret Storm : 0:35:04 Oh welll... that's not since Tesla died... that was when he was alive.

Long John Nebel : 0:35:08 Well... who is the man... the last time that I spoke to you... who was the man... that you... told me... I think you said to me... that some man in... in Canada or in England that was communicating with Tesla... since he's been dead?

Margaret Storm : 0:35:23 Tesla...

Long John Nebel : 0:35:24 With the machine... with the radio machine... or something... that you described it?

Margaret Storm : 0:35:27 No... no... the only radio... the only radio type... a... a... machine... which was the... invented by Tesla... was built by Mr. Matthews. And a... he had not communicated with Tesla... he a... communicates with Venusian spaceship. Mr. a... Matthews... a... stated... at one point that... while Tesla was alive... he did not a... necessarily have to communicate with him by letter. He had other ways of communicating with him.

Long John Nebel : 0:36:02 Well... Bill Preston just walked in... and Bill just came over and he whispered to me... that a... he was listening to the program... and he had some work to do on a couple of assignments... he thought the discussion was very interesting... and he hopped into his Jaguar... and came from the studio in Westport. Bill... I'll give up my seat... for a couple of minutes... if you want to jump in here... and ask a couple of questions.

Bill Preston : 0:36:35 I came down to see if this... was for real.

Long John Nebel : 0:36:37 All right.

Bill Preston : 0:36:38 (?)(?)(?)(?)

Long John Nebel : 0:36:39 No.

Margaret Storm : 0:36:39 laughs

Long John Nebel : 0:36:40 This is Mrs. Storm... this is Don Dunn... a... Mr. Norman Colton... Mr. Otis T. Carr... and Charles Leedham.

Bill Preston : 0:36:55 Mrs. Storm... I was a... I heard the... the show... the last time that you were on... a... some months ago. And... am I correct in assuming that you have never... seen... any of these a... instruments... which... a... communicate with... a... Venus... these radio type machine?

Margaret Storm : 0:37:14 Well... the radio type machine... does not communicate with Venus... a... the present model... it a... is a... radio type set... which was a... designed by Tesla... in 1938. The design was given to... Arthur H. Matthews... with one of his engineers... lived near Quebec Canada. Tesla... said to Mr. Matthews... in a few years... spaceships will be approaching the Earth from other planets. And when they do... I would suggest that you build this set... so that you can speak to the... crews. It is called... an Interplanetary Communication Set... and I understand that in its final stage... it... a... will... be able to... apply communication with other planets. At the present time however... Mr. a... Matthews... should built a smaller model... which has a range... of from... five thousand miles above the Earth... to thirty thousand miles. In other words... a spaceship... must be... within that range... in other to... a... be reached by this set.

Bill Preston : 0:38:15 Have you seen this set?

Margaret Storm : 0:38:16 I personally have not gone up there yet... to see it... however... a... many of my friends have.

Bill Preston : 0:38:23 Is this... has this set... a... picked up any messages from spacecraft... up to that point?

Margaret Storm : 0:38:28 Oh yes... It... it picked up a... messages immediately after he had it built.

Bill Preston : 0:38:34 Messages from... flying saucers... or what we would call... flying saucers?

Margaret Storm : 0:38:36 That is correct... and a... then after the first a... I think about the first five messages have been received... the a... pilot a... of the ship said... that a... he would come down... he would land. And a... the first a... since that... there have been many landings. Mr. Matthews property is quite secluded... and a... it's heavily wooded and so forth. And a... he a... has a... space... a... an open space... fairly near his a... home. Which a... is a natural landing field of sort. And a... there the spacecraft often come down at night... and a... he is said as to... visit with the... crew.

Bill Preston : 0:39:23 All right... now... this particular radio type machine... it would seem... that... possibly this might be of tremendous interest... let us say to... to the United States government... or the Canadain government.

Margaret Storm : 0:39:33 I don't think it would be the slightest interest to anyone... as I explained a... before when I was here... there is nothing more than a gadget. It is like a telephone... if you're going to use a telephone... you've got to have somebody on the other end of it. If you're going to use this machine... it's not going to do you any good... unless... somebody up there in a spaceship... decides that they would like to talk with you.

Bill Preston : 0:39:53 Well... in other words... a... since these spaceships are traveling around... a... occasionally... and then he picks... this gentleman seems to pick up quite a few messages. It would... it would seem... it might be of value. That we like have this thing... that the... the worries... and that they are afraid to land in... public places... is because of the fact that... there would be panic... on the part of the people... and so forth. Well... possibly... the governments... might be able to assure these... a... space visitors... alleged space visitors... that... by means of this... a... communication device... that actually... they were free to land... and we would not harm them... it just would be the case.

Margaret Storm : 0:40:31 Well... this... doesn't happen to be the case. Because the United States government... had definately issued orders to jet pilots to... fire on spaceships. And the same orders have been issued by the government of Great Britian... and a... there are several known instances... a... where a... the a... jet pilots did fire on the spaceship. The government does not want... the spaceships to land. There is no feeling of friendliness what so ever... but complete hostility. And the governments... of the world... have not released the information which they have on the spaceships... but they... deny... that there... that flying saucers exist.

Bill Preston : 0:41:14 Well... possibly... a... this whole thing might be due to... a lack of communication... a...

Margaret Storm : 0:41:19 There is no lack of communication... the a...

Bill Preston : 0:41:22 Well... I mean... there is a lack of communication... lets say on the part of... our government... with a... these space...

Margaret Storm : 0:41:26 Oh no... no

Bill Preston : 0:41:28 Are the government is communicating with these people?

Margaret Storm : 0:41:30 These space people are... have communicated with the government... on many occasions.

Bill Preston : 0:41:34 In what way?

Margaret Storm : 0:41:35 Why they... just simply came in... and talked with them. There were various officials... of all governments.

Bill Preston : 0:41:41 The space people have come in and talked... to officials of our government?

Margaret Storm : 0:41:44 Of all governments of the world... they have not missed any.

Bill Preston : 0:41:48 Cause you... do you happen to know of any... specific... a... times that this occurred?

Margaret Storm : 0:41:53 No... they didn't consult me... they just go right ahead... they don't ask me...

Bill Preston : 0:41:56 No... I mean... do... have you heard... ?

Margaret Storm : 0:41:57 ... permission at all. laughs

Bill Preston : 0:41:58 I mean... did they speak to the president... or did they interfere with congress... or I mean... ?

Margaret Storm : 0:42:03 I don't a... I have heard rumors but... I don't I... it is of no interest to me... what so ever. And a... that's entirely up to the government... and a...

Bill Preston : 0:42:14 Have you... spoken with any of these space people?

Margaret Storm : 0:42:17 No... I am not a contact. Not necessary in my case.

Bill Preston : 0:42:21 I'd like to get into a... a another little area here... and that is... this... this matter of belief. You mentioned before that you have... read many things and a... this was... you gave this as a... proof... so to speak. In other words... who is this gentleman... someone of the third ray... or?

Margaret Storm : 0:42:39 No... that's first ray... Morya.

Bill Preston : 0:42:40 (?)(?)... a... that you had read... have you read about this gentleman in other... in books and so forth?

Margaret Storm : 0:42:48 Well... since a... a great deal has been written about him over a matter of centuries... I think... it is a... quite possible... that many persons... have read about him.

Bill Preston : 0:42:57 Well... now what I'm getting at is... a... does this offer to you... convincing... proof. Proof enough... that you can... firmly believe in it... never having seen it... a... never having... and having only... in other words... you have stories that you have heard... rumors that you have heard... things you have read. Now... is this enough... to cause you to firmly believe... in this thing?

Margaret Storm : 0:43:18 Well... I don't know... because I never listen to rumors... and a... I don't pay very much attention to them.

Bill Preston : 0:43:23 Well... you mentioned... that you heard rumors... that these people... had visited members of the government?

Margaret Storm : 0:43:29 Oh well... that's... I thought you were talking about Morya.

Bill Preston : 0:43:32 Well... I'm dying to get into the...

Margaret Storm : 0:43:33 Morya is not...

Bill Preston : 0:43:34 (?)(?)

Margaret Storm : 0:43:35 Morya is not a spaceman. Now what are we talking about? Are we talking about space people or are we talking about Morya?

Bill Preston : 0:43:40 No... I'm trying to get into this whole idea of... the general area of... belief.

Margaret Storm : 0:43:44 Well... I... don't have any...

Bill Preston : 0:43:44 And what you... substantiate... these beliefs with?

Margaret Storm : 0:43:48 I don't a... have any beliefs. I either know... or I don't know. There is such a thing... a... when you get into... a... these matters... there is such a thing as... faith knowledge. Some people a... refer to it as... intuition. And a... that is what you have to use... when you get beyond... a certain a... mundane level.

Bill Preston : 0:44:10 Is this something like... kin to... lets say... a Zen Buddhism type of thing where... I know it... and if you don't know it... the only way that you will ever find out... is to know it the way I do... and I can't teach you... but you just have to know it?

Margaret Storm : 0:44:22 I know nothing about Zen Buddhism.

Bill Preston : 0:44:24 Well... in other words... it's principle... that it... it can't be taught... it is just a matter of... of... of sort of a universal wisdom or a knowledge... that you know... even though you can't prove it.

Margaret Storm : 0:44:34 Everything is a matter of univeral wisdom.

Bill Preston : 0:44:40 Now... you see what I am getting at... is... if... if we had... we are in this... this age... this so called... space age. And it seems to me... that all these various devices... and people... and... and things that have happened in... what I considered to be... more or less of a... of off beat field. These things are never... there're never able... there is no proof... ever given... for anything that ever happened. And all it is... we get back to the same thing... well just... I know it... and that's it. 0:45:08 And it would seem to me... that it is... the... the situation has come to the point... that... if a man... has a machine which can communicate with flying saucers... a radio type machine... then... if this gentleman is sincere in what he is doing... that there is no reason at all that he shouldn't... make this knowledge available to... these various... or his own government. Because it would seem to me... that no one man... and no small group of people... are going to be able to change the attitude of the United States government... or the Canadain government. But... if the governments themselves had access to a (?) of communication with the space people... then perhaps... an agreement could be worked out... whereby... they could land... peacefully and the whole thing could be accomplished... with a much greater haste.

Margaret Storm : 0:45:59 Well... in the first place... you seem to be assuming that a... Mr. Matthews is keeping this a... material secret. There is nothing secret about it. If anyone happens to be... in his home... a... at the time when the space people a... decide to send a message through... a... naturally... it's just like having a radio turned on... and a... anyone who is there... could hear it. There is nothing whatever secret about it. And a... Mr. Matthews... has been most cooperative... a... with me... and a... has supplied me with all the material he has... a... which is published in my book. And a... so what's secret about it. I mean... no one...

Bill Preston : 0:46:43 Has he invited...

Margaret Storm : 0:46:44 ... no one

Bill Preston : 0:46:44 ... scientists and officials of the government... to come and witness this?

Margaret Storm : 0:46:48 He hasn't invited them... they a...

Bill Preston : 0:46:50 Don't you think he should...

Margaret Storm : 0:46:51 ... practically... a... practically keep him up day and night... with their visits up there.

Bill Preston : 0:46:56 And officials of the government have... seen this in operation?

Margaret Storm : 0:46:59 Officails of many governments... have been in his home... what they have seen... I don't know. I doubt very much if space people would waste their time... talking to the a... officials of the government.

Bill Preston : 0:47:10 Why would it be a waste of time?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:12 Because they have already... visited them... as I told you. And the governments have... of the world without acception... have shown... nothing but hostility.

Bill Preston : 0:47:21 Now how do you know this? This is what I am getting at. Now... how do you know this? Now... how can you make this statement... over the air... and answer with nothing to substantiate it.

Margaret Storm : 0:47:30 Well...

Bill Preston : 0:47:30 Or do you have something that can substantiate it?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:33 I have the a... knowledge of this.

Bill Preston : 0:47:37 Did... how... did this... knowledge... come to you from a space person or is this a rumor?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:42 I do not have any contacts... with space people.

Bill Preston : 0:47:44 Alright... or is this a rumor?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:46 No... it is not a rumor.

Bill Preston : 0:47:47 Was it told to you by someone?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:50 Well...

Bill Preston : 0:47:51 Who witnessed it?

Margaret Storm : 0:47:51 ... I'm not... it has been told to me by many persons. Among others... a... Mr. a... Matthews himself have received complete messages... on the space set. About the activities of space people in connection with various governments.

Bill Preston : 0:48:09 But... have any... a... a... government officials... ever... said anything to you about this... or to any of your friends?

Margaret Storm : 0:48:15 I don't know any government officials... I don't move in those circles.

They are describing
an orbital path that is influenced partly by centrifugal force but the force that keeps them in motion is
the free space energy that is the propellant fuel
of Mr. Carr's devices.
Brochure... the Utron Electrical Accumulator
because that is a common misconception. The first push and Newton's law which explains what is happening stops right there at what is happening and not
how it is happening.
perhaps we can get an answer from Mr. Carr as to the propulsion unit in the OTC X-1.
Otis T. Carr
taught by the man
from Venus
Nikola Tesla
Now when we say...
it's a fourth dimensional vehicle
it's because it's completely round and completely square.
the only radio type machine which was invented by Tesla was built by Mr. Matthews.
And he had not communicated with Tesla...
he communicates with Venusian spaceship. Mr. Matthews stated at one point that while Tesla was alive he did not necessarily have to communicate with him
by letter. He had other ways of communicating with him.
The last time Margaret Storm was on the show some months ago.
designed by Tesla in 1938. The design was given to Arthur H. Matthews with one of his engineers
lived near Quebec Canada.
Tesla said to Mr. Matthews in a few years spaceships will be approaching the Earth from other planets. And when they do I would suggest that you build this set so that you can speak to the crews.
am I correct in assuming that you have never seen any of these instruments which communicate with Venus these radio type machine?
has this set picked up any messages from spacecraft up to that point?
It picked up messages immediately after
he had it built.
after the first I think about the first five messages have been received the pilot of the ship said he would come down he would land... since that... there have been many landings.
the spacecraft often come down at night and he is said as to visit with
the crew.
we would not harm them
this doesn't happen to be the case. Because the United States government had definately issued orders to jet pilots to
fire on spaceships.
The government does not want the spaceships to land. There is no feeling of friendliness what so ever but complete hostility.
These space people have communicated with the government on many occasions.
Of all governments of the world they have not missed any.
I am not a contact.
Not necessary in my case.
I don't have any beliefs.
I either know or I don't know.
There is nothing whatever secret about it. And Mr. Matthews has been most cooperative with me and has supplied me with all the material he has which is published in my book.
Officails of many governments have been in his home what they have seen I don't know. I doubt very much if space people would waste their time talking to the officials of the government.
Because they have already visited them as I told you. And the governments
of the world without acception have shown nothing but hostility.
Mr. Matthews himself
have received complete messages on the space set. About the activities of space people in connection with various governments.

Bill Preston : 0:48:19 Have any of your friends... ever... ever talked with any government official... or anybody that you know. Where the government official has made this statement... that they have been visited or... they visited a friend and so forth.

Margaret Storm : 0:48:29 I don't know any of... of my friends... who are... talked to government official... and if they did... I wouldn't be at all interested.

Bill Preston : 0:48:37 All right... I... I would gather from your (?)... that you don't think too much... of your government officials.

Margaret Storm : 0:48:43 I have no interest in the matter one way of the other. But I do feel... that the a... if the... space people... call on the government officials... that a... since this... is a democratic country... that they should... a... take advantage of the... mediums of communication... newspapers... radio... and so forth. And give the facts... at least give a thousand years to the people.

Bill Preston : 0:49:08 If they have... I would agree with you.

Margaret Storm : 0:49:10 Anything they know... about flying saucers they should give it out to the people... and let the people judge.

Bill Preston : 0:49:15 Do you... you see the thing... I could understand... let us say... one person or two people... or many people in any government... being corrupt... or being narrow minded... or anything to... to... in other words... that that would not be considered... they wouldn't be... upright and above board... with all their knowledge. But it would seem to me... that a... in the... in the government system... as we have established it in this country... and in other counties. That... there are people involved in this... that are... that have integrety... and would not be afraid to speak out. I... I couldn't possible conceive of everyone in... in our government or any government... wanting to withhold information from anybody.

Margaret Storm : 0:49:52 You couldn't? Well... why don't you a... speak to some of the a... pilots... of the various a... a... airlines... both a... government and a... private. Who have seen... many spaceships. And a... it has reached the point now... where they dare not even report them.

Bill Preston : 0:50:11 I've... I've heard many reports from pilots.

Margaret Storm : 0:50:12 Because they have been so... they have been so ridiculed.

Bill Preston : 0:50:15 Well... this is a matter of public ridicule... and it has nothing to do with the policy of the government... does it? Or... or the integrity of the individual concerned... at least they did make their statements known. Now the fact that they were ridiculed... this has nothing to do with the official... or the person concerned... this happens to be... the attitude the public.

Margaret Storm : 0:50:32 No... I'm not speaking of the attitude of the public... it doesn't reach the public. How would it reach the public... it would have to... go through newspaper channels... a... radio channels...

Bill Preston : 0:50:40 Well... isn't this reaching the public?

Margaret Storm : 0:50:43 ... and a...

Bill Preston : 0:50:44 Arn't you reaching the public right now?

Margaret Storm : 0:50:45 Right now... yes. These a... cases that I am referring to... a... involve a... pilots in... government service. Now there have been many many stories... about these things... which have been... published... perhaps not in the public press. In the daily newspapers... but certainly they have been published in many... a... smaller... a... publications... magazines and so forth.

Bill Preston : 0:51:11 Now... isn't this reaching the public?

Margaret Storm : 0:51:14 It's reaching a certain class... of the public.

Bill Preston : 0:51:18 Well... what class is that?

Margaret Storm : 0:51:20 Well... the... the people who read the smaller magazines... and... smaller publications... not the people who read the daily newspaper. The newspaper... have not... certainly carried very many saucers stories.

Norman Colton (?) : 0:51:33 You're not redoing it. (?)

Bill Preston : 0:51:34 No... and... I... you see... what I... does this... I think... as I say... it is inconceivable to me... that... if all this were happening... and... and... you know... the only place we hear about it is... reading these smaller publications... and listening to this particular program. Now... I know that a... John has quite a few listeners... and I'm sure... that among these listeners... there are many people... or several people... that... would possible be involved in governmental affairs... or policy making affairs... and so forth and so on. Whether they are on a city... state... or federal level. 0:52:06 Now... I can not accept... this statement... that... officials of our government... and I'm... I'm going to be specific now... that officials of our government... has been visited by space people... and that... they have expressed an open hostility... and an... unwillingness to negotiate... or to talk... with these people... which is... is basically what you're saying... right?

Margaret Storm : 0:52:28 They have expressed... a... certainly hostility...
when they give orders... to jet pilots to... fire. On a... spacecraft.

Bill Preston : 0:52:37 But you see... I... I am not arguing with you... the fact that this... is an evidence of hostility. But my point is... that perhaps... this is because... it is the old fear of the unknown. Perhaps because they haven't been visited by space people... they don't know what these things are... and they figure... the only way they're going to find out... is to shoot one. And try to get it down to this planet. I can understand this. I am not saying that I condone it. But I can understand it. But I certainly... feel that... if it were possible to communicate... it's the same principle... as going into Africa. When you find a tribe of natives... and you don't speak the language... and you can't communicate... this is how hostilities arise. But... if you can speak their language... if you can talk to them... then possibly... you can work out an... an arrangement... which will be agreeable to both sides.

Margaret Storm : 0:53:24 Well... the a... space people of course are... completely a... a telepathic. And a... a... last year when I was on this program... there was a... some suggestion made that... perhaps Mr. Matthews could bring his a... set... down here to New York and demonstrate. I... wrote to Mr. Matthews... about this... and a... he a... spoke to the a... space people about it. And they said... it would... just be a complete waste of time... because they would simply say the... there is the a... a... so called scientists and so forth who were listening to us... would simply say... that it was some kind of a trick. 0:54:08 They wouldn't understand why... but they would... would say that it was a trick. After all... the space people know... the minds... of the people. They are able to take... a... complete readings and estimates. They know the... the a... just what the... status... of the entire population... is... in that respect. And a... when the people are ready... that is when a sufficient... This is... 710 on the dial... WOR Radio... New York City ... earthlings... yes. When a sufficiant number... are ready to accept this... then... the space people will... a... be able to land peacefully. Meanwhile they are not anxious to cause any... any difficulty... at all... any trouble.

Long John Nebel : 0:54:55 Mean while... what would happen?

Margaret Storm : 0:54:58 Well...

Long John Nebel : 0:54:58 Suppose they landed today?

Margaret Storm : 0:55:01 Well... a... the people have not had a chance... to... a... have sufficient preparation. If the a... newspapers... and a... radios and tele... TV and so forth... they would all cooperate... and allow the people... just simply tell the people... what is... observed and so forth. And allow the people to become accustom to the idea... of life on other planets. Then the people would have some preparation. As it stands... they have had very little preparation... except... a... in a... certain small... rather small circle.

Long John Nebel : 0:55:39 Don't you think... Mrs. Storm... that it would be rather ridiculous for... any newspaper... any radio station or ...any television station to go out on the limb... and to tell their listeners... that there are people living on other planets... that we know it? When no proof... has ever been offered to any editors... or any radio talk stations...

Margaret Storm : 0:55:59 Well... they didn't say that... anyway Mr. Tesla...

Long John Nebel : 0:56:03 ... yeah... I said it John.

Margaret Storm : 0:56:04 Mr. Tesla... a... well... I wouldn't say that no proof has ever been offered. Mr. a... Tesla... was willing to go out on a limb... in 1938... and design and Interplantary Communication Set... because...

Long John Nebel : 0:56:16 Now who do you... let me ask you this... Mrs. Storm. If yo design a... Interplantary communicating... Communication Set... what does this mean if there is no one to communicate with?

Margaret Storm : 0:56:27 Well... it doesn't mean anything. But he a... he said... a... that... space ships would be approaching the Earth from other planets... and then... the set would provide...

Long John Nebel : 0:56:39 All right... that was 1938... this is 1958... twenty years have lapsed. Now let me ask you this question... forgetting about Tesla for a moment. Has any proof ever been offered to you... Mrs. Storm... in other words... if you owned this radio station... would you tell... your news commentators... that each day... they should tell the listeners... of WOR... that the space people will be here... will be coming here... lets prepare?

Margaret Storm : 0:57:15 No. I think however... that all sightings... should be treated as news... and should be reported as news.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:24 Do you honestly feel... that there are saucers flying around... or spacecraft...

Margaret Storm : 0:57:28 Yes.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:28 ... or whatever you want to call it?

Margaret Storm : 0:57:29 uh huh.

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:30 May I...

Margaret Storm : 0:57:31 Even though Mr. Carr hasn't got his... up in the air yet.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:34 Well... Mr. Carr is...

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:34 (?)

Margaret Storm : 0:57:34 laughs

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:35 In air expression... I think... but may I make an observation here one time?

Margaret Storm : 0:57:39 Never can tell about that.

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:41 Mr. Tesla... of course started us on the space... principles... in 1925.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:48 Well... Mr. Carr... I'd just like to tell you that... maybe if you have a night or two... once in a while to spare... you should... sit up and listen to... the... you should stay up and listen to the... Party Line. Because we've had people that tell us that this... goes back... many many more years... prior to the time of... Mr. Tesla.

Otis T. Carr : 0:58:05 Very possible. What we wanted to further say is... that after many years of development... we found a power package... that made it possible... to build an electrified craft. Having succeeded in doing this... we then observed... an unidentified electrified craft in the air. We saw four... from 1951 to '52...

Long John Nebel : 0:58:29 We?

Otis T. Carr : 0:58:29 Myself... I'm speaking editorially. Now... having experimented... having... having run successful tests... our first feeling was... that well... our work has been completed. Someone else has done it. The government... or the United States government... or other scientists have... finally found the electrical... electrical propulsion system... and put it to work. And we were a little chagrined... but nevertheless we were happy to see... these functioning craft. As months went by... and the months to years... with no identification... we... without having the exact knowledge... of having... talked to... or had communication... most assuredly had the feeling... that they must be... from outer space. Because we would not be spending the millions and the billions on... antiquated rockets... if we had an electric... an electrical propulsion system... so superior to it. And we have seen... in our observation... one of these crafts had a velocity of several thousand miles per hour... and we are a trained observer.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:41 You're using the editorial... we?

Otis T. Carr : 0:59:42 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:44 When you say you are a trained observer... what does that mean... where did you receive this training?

Otis T. Carr : 0:59:50 Observation.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:53 What does that mean?

Otis T. Carr : 0:59:54 Study... the study of meteors... and their flight for many years.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:58 You have been studying them for many years?

Otis T. Carr : 0:59:59 Study... that's right. Many years. And... the... various other... objects... that are in the air. Visible in the heavens at night. Therefore when we see something... going at great velosity... spinning... throwing off an electrical glow... because we have seen this glow ourselves. We know this to be an object... which is not... a heavenly body... because it seemed to have been controlled.

Long John Nebel : 1:00:28 Do you think Mr. Carr... that there are Venusians... Martians... Saturnians... walking around on this planet?

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:34 There is a... good... a great possibility that this is true. The... the trained observer... knows... that... all sources... of any value at all... are reasonably... un... invisible... until they are understood.

Long John Nebel : 1:00:50 But they maybe here now... but they are invisible.

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:52 This could be. And they could be visible.

Long John Nebel : 1:00:54 Are there any visible Martians walking around?

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:56 This is very possible... we have not talked to any.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:00 But they may be here?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:01 Very possible.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:03 Why is it that we haven't talked to them?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:05 Maybe they don't want to talk to us.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:07 Then they must be invisible then.

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:09 Well... a.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:09 In other words... we'd recognize something. Are they in a different form... other than... ?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:14 You have to approach this in a little bit of a psychological.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:18 That is the most unfortunate part... about all of these subjects... we wind up with the psychological...

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:23 No

Long John Nebel : 1:01:23 ... physical approach instead of a tangible.

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:25 Well... we can make it both tangible too. By comparison. You and I...

Long John Nebel : 1:01:31 How do you compare something that's invisible... with something... that's visible?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:34 Doesn't necessarly have to be invisible... it can be very visible... but not identified.

Norman Colton : 1:01:38 There is an example right in your two hands there... with those magnets. You're holding... a... two tangible... pieces of metal. And when you put the a... north poles... near each other... you feel a definate pressure...

Long John Nebel : 1:01:53 uh huh.

Norman Colton : 1:01:54 ... between the two... in what appears to us to be... blank empty space... and yet you feel the force... you can't see it. It's there.

Otis T. Carr : 1:02:04 The other... comparison I was... arriving... coming to make... is this... that you and I... don't everyday... go down in the Everglades swamp... swamps... and play with the alligators... and the cotton mouths... because that is an... abominable situation for us. And it's very possible... that anyone... any being of a higher... evolved state... would see... think the same way about us... as we think about... these places... that we don't want to visit. So a...

Long John Nebel : 1:02:37 Why is it... Mr. Carr... that everybody that I have
the opportunity of talking to... we've talk about... Venusians... Martians... Saturnians and clairians... what have you. Always tell us... that... their higher evolved than what we are. They have a different... I don't doubt that their culture may be different than ours. But we... we're constantly told that they're superior to us... why is this sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:04 If they're able to come here... and we aren't able...

Long John Nebel : 1:03:06 Yes... if they are...

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:07 ... to go there.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:08 ... if they are... of course this doesn't prove that... they're superior.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:11 No... not necessarily.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:12 I saw a fellow the other night... who... who we put dough into his eyes... cotton over the dough... and then put an around a... an elastic bandage... and then we put... five napkins around... and the man read something... a... I think the man... is superior... possibly when it comes to eyeless vision... but it ends there.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:32 Could be.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:32 And is because the man... just because... you have invented something... a... Mr. Carr... a... that you claim... will take us to the Moon and back... in a period of ten hours... does not mean... that you're superior to me... sir.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:44 Not at all.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:45 It means... that you have more knowledge... about the development of this craft... the... aluminum foil craft... or whatever it is... the Circular Foil Craft.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:54 Right.

Bill Preston : 1:03:54 This puts us on... on a level then... with the space people... because now... we can go too.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:58 Yes... if... if we could develop...

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:00 Well... you notice... that in our... in our... rendering... architectural rendering... that we have... plenty of space... for space people to land... we have a landing field there. They are invited when we get it built.

Bill Preston : 1:04:10 Have they made any reservations?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:12 Well... a... we don't have any.

Norman Colton : 1:03:16 The space is there when they... when they come in.

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:18 That's right.

Bill Preston : 1:04:18 Mr. Carr... a... you mentioned a few moments ago... about... a... these tests... that you had performed. Could you give us some idea of what... what some of these tests involved?

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:28 Our tests involve... proving this principle... principle to accurate. Wherein we electrified a circular assembly. Electromagnets... capacitor plates... a... an electrified... a... propulsion system... it got us to... a safe and relative velocity... and it became... airborn. We run successful tests. Out of this... we were able to build... the basic engineering principle... that makes this possible... for us to build a craft... weighing many tons... that... will absolutely be... a... airborn... in it's a fact... that it will neutralize... the inertial attractive force. And in so far as these attractive forces concerned... it is totally weightless... regardless as to how much it weighs.

Bill Preston : 1:05:14 You still got this equipment... that you performed these tests?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:16 We have much of our equipment.

several : 1:05:18 talking at once.

Bill Preston : 1:05:19 Could you do the test tomorrow... the same test?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:21 A.... a... it would take... a couple of days.

Bill Preston : 1:05:25 Do you think that this might be... a... desir... a... desirable for you to do... possibly... a... getting back again... possibly for the government... because they seem to have a lot of money to go around?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:35 The government... is not at all interested in us. We have told the government... exactly what we want to do... what we plan to do... and what we are going to do. A government scientist had... has visited our work shop... the scientist agreed with us... publicly... with other people. He was certain... that a craft... such as we... such as we described... could come... become... electrically airborn. But... the government published a statement that... they... were... do... that... what we have... does not fit... their foreseeable needs.

Bill Preston : 1:06:08 What... a... why do you think the government isn't interested? You say that... what you..

Norman Colton : 1:06:13 Would you let me pick that question up from you... will you?

Bill Preston : 1:05:16 Fine.

Norman Colton : 1:06:17 I'm a... sitting here in...

Long John Nebel : 1:05:18 Mr. Colton...

Norman Colton : 1:06:20 Thank you... Mr. Nebel. What John might charactorize as a... straight faced amusement... diction... contradiction. We deal with a lot of terms that... a... confuse us around this table... and I'm sure... must consequently confuse some of the audience... John says eight... I think it's probably closer to... eight hundred thousand... or eight million... from his mail and our mail. I'd like to try to reduce some of this to... understandable... simplicity... and... a... terms which have (?)come to me(?). 1:06:59 In the first place... lets talk about space people... as though they were... a... something foreign to ourselves. It may be a surprise to... some of us right here at this table to... begin to consider us... as... truly space people. As many people who may populate... some other planets. Now we think of... this... Earth planet... that we're... tied to by... a gravity pull... as... our own home as familiar to us. And as having... a... certain... particularities... like an atmosphere... and that there is nothing else like it anywhere. We sometimes forget... that... a... in spite of the fact... that we have a little atmosphere. 1:07:53 We are... as truly in Space... as people on the Moon or Mars or Venus... standing on the surface of their planet... would be in Space. Drew... has a... two Alnico magnets in his hands. These magnets... when held so that their north poles... are near each other... repell each other. This is a simple demonstration... of how Mr. Carr's invention of a...

Don Dunn : 1:08:25 coughs... coughs.

Norman Colton : 1:08:25 ... a... Circular Foil Craft... is propelled away from... this planet or... any other planets... by... a circular motion machine... a power package as we call it... which develops in the craft itself... a polarity... and a...

Don Dunn : 1:08:44 coughs...

Norman Colton : 1:08:45 ... pressure potential... which (?)(?) larger than... the force you feel in these two little magnets... it is identical... in basic principle. Now if you understand a basic principle... you can understand any machine... that is... developed from that principle and built around it. How...

Bill Preston : 1:09:04 Excuse me... Mr. Colton... how do you control? I noticed that when you... if you take a magnet... and... and you... put the two north poles together... that the other magnet... shoots off. But it has no particular... direction... it's liable to go any way... as long as it gets away. Now how... how you control this particular... a... spacecraft?

Norman Colton : 1:09:21 I'll be glad to show you that... in just a minute.

Bill Preston : 1:09:23 Do you want to use these?

Norman Colton : 1:09:25 Sure. The a... force that is felt when you a... put these... two north poles near each other... is... a sample... of the... force we call... Free Space Energy. It is... an energy that's all around us... and available to us. It is... the plan energy that is used... in... the more familiar... electric generators... dynamos and motors. We don't manufacture it... we merely... use systems to collect it... focus it... and distribute it. And so we can do it with these little magnets... just as we do it with the Circular Foil Spacecraft... by a system of... counterrotation. 1:10:10 The two little paper clips I have here... it's just like any other paper clips. I picked them up out of a box... of many. As you see... they're not magnetic... they don't attract each other... they... they don't repell each other. Each of these paper clips... is... attracted with equal force... to... either of these... north pole tips... of these Alnico magnets. Now if you hold the... magnet... with the paper clips on the end... so that they are... opposite... and... in a parallel plane with each other. You continue to see this phenomena of the... a... magnets pushing each other away... or repelling. 1:10:54 The... mutual repulsion of like poles. And if you turn the two magnets... so that the paper clips... are perpendicular to each other... forming sort of a cross... as you bring them close together... you feel no push. So that you have... thereby controlled... by redirecting the flow... of this... Free Space Energy... along the... paper clips... so that they... no longer push each other apart. And as you... gradually turn them... parallel and perpendicular... you feel the... force of repulsion... a... stronger and weeker... and as they're perpendicular... completely neutralize... there is no push at all. 1:11:39 We accomplish the same... a... contol of... space force in the circular foil craft... by accelerating or decelerating... the systems counterrotation. And we could call these two little magnets... a... call one of them Earth... call one of them... Moon. Or call one of them Earth and call the other... OTC X-1 Spacecraft.
You put them in a certain relationship to each other... and they push each other apart.
When the... OTC X-1... gets put into rotation... relative to the Earth's rotation... it will... push the Earth away... and the Earth will push it away. So this is a... very simple demonstration... that anyone can make... with his own two hands... of how the... Free Space Energy... can be used to repell a craft away from Earth... and anywhere in the Solar System.

I couldn't possible
conceive
of everyone our government or any government wanting to withhold information from anybody.
You couldn't? Well
why don't you speak to some of the pilots of the various airlines both government and private. Who have seen many spaceships. And it has reached the point now where they dare not
even report them.
The newspaper have
not certainly carried
very many saucers stories.
they have expressed an open hostility
They have expressed certainly hostility when they give orders to
jet pilots to fire.
On spacecraft.
the only way they're going to find out is to shoot one
perhaps Mr. Matthews could bring his set down here to New York and demonstrate. I wrote to Mr. Matthews about this and he spoke to the space people about it. And they said it would just be a complete waste of time because they would simply say the there's the so called scientists and so forth who were listening to us would simply say that it was some kind of a trick.
last year when I was on this program.
missing recording
the space people know
the minds of the people
.
I think however that all sightings should be treated as news and should be reported as news.
allow the people
to become accustom to
the idea
of life on other planets.
Mr. Tesla of course started us on the space principles in 1925.
after many years of development we found
a power package that made it possible to build an electrified craft. Having succeeded in doing this
we then observed an unidentified electrified craft in the air. We saw four from 1951 to '52.
Someone else has done it. The government or the United States government or other scientists have finally found the electrical electrical propulsion system and put it to work. And we were a little chagrined but nevertheless we were happy to see these functioning craft.
As months went by
and the months to years with no identification we without having the exact knowledge of having talked to or had communication most assuredly had the feeling that
they must be from outer space. Because we would not
be spending...
throwing off an
electrical glow because
we have seen this glow ourselves...
The trained observer knows that all sources
of any value at all are reasonably invisible until they are understood.
There is an example right in your two hands there with those magnets.
would see... think the same way about us...
we're constantly told that they're superior to us... why is this sir?
Terrific Question
Mr. Carr you mentioned a few moments ago about these tests that you had performed. Could you give us some idea of what some of these tests involved?
it is totally weightless regardless as to
how much it weighs.
Wherein we electrified a circular assembly.
The government...
is not at all interested in us.
These magnets when held so that their north poles are near each other repell each other. This is a simple demonstration of how Mr. Carr's invention of a Circular Foil Craft is propelled away from this planet or any other planets by a circular motion machine a power package as we call it which develops in the craft itself a polarity and a pressure potential
how you control this particular spacecraft?
The force that is felt when you put these two north poles near each other is
a sample of the force we call... Free Space Energy.
It is an energy that's all around us and available to us.
It is the plan energy that is used in the more familiar electric generators dynamos and motors.
We don't manufacture it we merely use systems
to collect it focus it and distribute it.
And so we
can do it with these little magnets just as we do it with the Circular Foil Spacecraft by a system of counterrotation.
Terrific Question
Free Space Energy
When the OTC X-1 gets put into rotation relative to the Earth's rotation it will push the Earth away and the Earth will push it away.

Long John Nebel : 1:12:35 Bill Preston.

Bill Preston : 1:12:36 I noticed when you use them... when you use these magnets... this particular demonstration... this was... I... I think it's almost better than the thing with the sugar... you know... the cubes of sugar.

Long John Nebel : 1:12:44 Yep.

Bill Preston : 1:12:45 ah...

Long John Nebel : 1:12:45 (?)(?)(?)

Bill Preston : 1:12:46 Yeah. I... I noticed that this magnetic field... a... has certain limit... and that once this other magnet... outside of this limit... that a... this principle no longer operates. Now... does this same thing hold true... with this... a... Free Space Energy... or is it just all around?

Norman Colton : 1:13:02 Well the... universal laws... that a... apply to these two... quarter inch diameter... magnets... apply to... all bodies in the Solar System... according to their mass. And that is expressed in the inverse proportion laws of gravity and magnetism. They are... what we call... stronger and weaker... as we go... closer to them... or farther away from them.

Long John Nebel : 1:13:30 Don Dunn.

Don Dunn : 1:13:31 Mr. Carr... if you said a... a small model of the ship... had become... airborn?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:39 This is correct.

Don Dunn : 1:13:40 You... a... you got this model spinning?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:43 Yes... indeed.

Don Dunn : 1:13:44 With... what kind of force... was used to spin the model?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:47 Electromotive.

Don Dunn : 1:13:49 By that you mean... an electric motor?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:51 Electricity... from our... Utron Electrical Accumulator.

Don Dunn : 1:13:56 A... did... this a... Utron Accumulator... become plugged into any... any kind of socket... or (?)?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:04 No need... it is a... it is an vernacular a battery... it's a storage cell... and an accumulation of storage cells.

Don Dunn : 1:14:11 How... how big was the model that became airborn?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:14 The model was approximately... one was four feet in diameter... and one was four and a half... and the largest model we built... was six feet.

Don Dunn : 1:14:22 What... what did it weigh?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:24 The largest one was approximately sixteen pounds.

Don Dunn : 1:14:28 What did the battery weigh?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:30 The battery in this... was about two and a half pounds... that is the accumulator... weighed about two and a half pounds.

Don Dunn : 1:14:36 That's about a ratio of about one -to- eight.

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:40 Now... the electromagnets took up most of the weight. We had about... twelve ounces of balsa wood as the framework.

Don Dunn : 1:14:48 What will be the weight of the... the... first... a... X...?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:53 The OTC X-1 as we planned it... at Space Maryland... Space Research Institute will be forty-five feet in diameter... and weigh approximately... fifteen ton.

Don Dunn : 1:15:03 You'll need about a two ton battery to lift it.

Otis T. Carr : 1:15:05 Well... and it will have... we plan a twelve thousand volt output... to this battery... this accumulator.

Bill Preston : 1:15:12 Good for a flashlight... you'd have a bright light.

Long John Nebel : 1:15:15 This is... WOR Radio... are you waiting for me there? All right. This is WOR Radio... your station in New York... and this Long John with the Party Line. My guests this morning... Mrs. Margaret Storm... the author of the new book in title... Return of the Dove. Otis T. Carr and Norman Colton of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. Mr. Carr is President of O.T.C. Enterprises. Norman Evens Colton is Director of Sales Engineering. Charles Leedham author and TV Producer is with us. Don Dunn of Television Age... and William E. Preston Jr. Charles... a... you got a couple of telegrams there... you going to... read those?

Charles Leedham : 1:16:04 This one says... it's from... Norwalk Connecticut... the lady would like her name not to be read. Marvelous program but I beg to differ with the gentleman who said... that man had never created life... even an ameba. I read... that in 1600... a simple scientist... accidently found life in a solution... he was almost stoned to death by... simple peasant neighbors...

Don Dunn : 1:16:30 caughs...

Charles Leedham : 1:16:31 ... this life could not reproduce. That's the end of that telegram.

Long John Nebel : 1:16:37 All right. Thank you very much. Anybody want to comment on this?

Otis T. Carr : 1:16:42 Doctor Cryal (?) of Cleveland... made a little bit of progress... in (?) with the development of a cell. How... how far he went... we don't know.

Long John Nebel : 1:16:54 Charles.

Charles Leedham : 1:16:56 Lets see... there's a... it's a rather long one here. From New York... Thank you and your guests for another interesting program. However with all due respects... to you and your panel... whose intelligence act human and humor... are admirable in your justifiably skeptical approach. You seem to be woefully ill equipped to question the technical aspects of this discussion. Oh where are thou now... Major Markoff... or someone of similar background. In referrence to question Don raised just before coffee break... Einstein in his classic equation... had suggested that energy and mass are the same. In 1931... two physicists... Cockcroft and Walton... bombarded lithium with protons... and found that alpha particles... were ejected with tremendous energies. This energy they found... was equivalent... to the decrease in total mass. Thanks again for a good show. Signed... Jules Francis.

Norman Colton : 1:17:54 I stand corrected.

Charles Leedham : 1:17:57 Oh... I don't know about that.

Long John Nebel : 1:17:59 How do you feel about it... Charles?

Charles Leedham : 1:18:02 Well I... a... chuckles... this bit of a... of no one here being... or everyone here being... woefully equipped to question the technical aspects of this discussion. I don't feel woefully equipped. But (?)(?)(?).

Norman Colton : 1:18:17 I'd like to (?)imperfilate(?)... that a... while the... gentleman's remarks are... very fine and well intentioned... that a... they are self contradictory... in that a... if you are giving him a good show... your questions however... inept they may be... are bringing out the answers... that make a good show. My...

Don Dunn : 1:18:40 I for one... liked your questions... and I think your (?)energy(?) qualify.

Charles Leedham : 1:18:45 I agree.

Bill Preston : 1:18:45 One and all.

Otis T. Carr : 1:18:46 We feel the same way. And... all... great developments are usually basically simple... and are easily understood by ordinary language. Faraday's great discovery... of... rotating a loop of wire... inside two poles of a magnet... which really made possible... a... electric motors... and introduced... more than anything else in the world... the electrical age. Now we have confidence that almost every child... who has done any experiment has built... the Faraday Motor... children can do it. Yet... believe me it was for years... before anyone would even listen to him. And even... after the English government... a... he tried to get a small appropriation... and they said to him... well what good is this anyway? And his classic reply was... that someday you will tax it.

Long John Nebel : 1:19:38 We have another telegram here. The person who sent this telegam... has requested a... me not to... use... their name. Here's the message... ask him... I imagine that the... person is a... referring to... either Mr. Colton or Mr. Carr. As him... if the twenty million dollars... will be returned... to the inventors... if the OTC X-1... failed to reach the Moon and return? In other words... I guess the person is interested in knowing... whether they'll... whether they will receive a written guarantee that the unit will work. In other words... a ninty day guarantee or ninty three million miles.

Margaret Storm : 1:20:31 laughs...

Norman Colton : 1:20:33 Getting back to our conversation a few minutes ago...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:36 laughs... you're going to drop (?)(?)...

Norman Colton : 1:20:37 I'm going to pick that right up.

Long John Nebel : 1:20:38 laughs...

Margaret Storm : 1:20:40 laughs...

Norman Colton : 1:20:40 We established two...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:41 This (?)wasn't(?) my question... as you realize...

Norman Colton : 1:20:43 I understand...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:43 ... the one that came in... a... by the wire.

Norman Colton : 1:20:45 What telegram... right. I tried to establish... that we are space people. That we have...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:54 Are you talking now... about... O.T.C....

Norman Colton : 1:20:57 I and Otis...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:57 ... Enterprises or are you talking about me?

Norman Colton : 1:20:58 I am Norman Colton... and the... Otis T. Carr... we acknowledge that we are space people...

Long John Nebel : 1:21:04 I have never had...

Don Dunn : 1:21:06 laughs
Bill Preston : 1:21:06 laughs
Long John Nebel : 1:21:06 laughs
Margaret Storm : 1:21:07 laughs

Norman Colton : 1:21:09 On a fast moving... planet here... that is a... not visibly suspended by any... wires... hooks... structure of framework of any kind that you can see. It's a... spinning on its axes... at about six hundred fifty miles and hour... it rotating... its orbit around the Sun at about... sixty six thousand miles an hour. So I think... we're as much space people as anybody. We have approached our government... we have shown them... these... a... prototype principles. The two magnets that you are holding in your hands... that a... I think that you acknowledged clearly demonstrate the... existence... the availablity and controllability... of the free space energies... we talk about. 1:21:52 And... five... emanate... government officials... were visited by us space people. And they in turn... visited our Baltimore headquarters. We made them these demonstrations... and many more. They (?)all(?) acknowledged... that what we had shown them... Mr. Carr had invented. Applied as principle to... a... more refined structure... to be built from those principles... as an electrified spacecraft could be airborn and space born. And a few days later... after they returned to Washington... some... party unknown to us by name... issued a statement to the press... that a... as I read it here... when it was published in the Philadelphia Inquire... that the... models shown... does not meet the present or foreseeable needs of the Army. 1:22:56 Now the models... This is WOR Radio... your station in New York... 710 on the dial ... Alnico magnets... little motors... little generators... little assemblies of components... that demonstrated principles... which they had acknowledged... would perform. If... manufactured a... substantially and structurally... to perform as... a... airborn craft. And yet they... restricted their comment to... the models shown. Which were... not intended to be... a... flight worthy craft by any means. This is a long way around to your... wire... that questioned... whether we would return the... twenty million dollars. The direct answer to the question is... that... we won't even collect the twenty milion dollars... until we have made a successful demonstration... not only of principle... but of... a... flight worthiness... of a small prototype model... of the craft.

Long John Nebel : 1:24:04 Mr. Colton... I haven't mentioned the... persons name that sent (?) telegram. So I don't think that a... I am taking unfair advantage of the person... because they are not with us this morning. I...
I think that this person means... to get a group of people by (?). In other words... if this... becomes a public stock... a... if this is a public stock offer... and if a... a... the people buy twenty million dollars worth of stock. And the... craft never gets off the ground... are they going to get their money back?

Norman Colton : 1:24:48 Well... there again...

Long John Nebel : 1:24:48 I can... I can answer that myself... certainly not.
I mean... after all... anytime anybody invests in a... in a firm... I mean... the money is trying to be used to a... to build the craft... and if something happened that it failed... well.. it would be one of those unfortunate things...

Norman Colton : 1:25:05 You're certainly right in the ordinary commercial sense... and an ordinary sense of... a venture stock offering. We have a... restricted ourselves again... to guarantee... that we will make a public demonstration... of the actualities that we speak about here... before we... even... offer the public... a single share of stock. We will not collect any public funds... either in the form of... stock investment... or in the form of... appropriations from tax moneies... before we have made a physical demonstration of these principles... in a flight worthy craft. 1:25:54 Recently we reiterated a... these attitudes... in a telegram which said a... To all concerned in government and the public communications media. Attention invited... our standing proposal... furnish government practical electrified spacecraft. Money no object... weight no problem... size immaterial... instrumentation optional. Let MacElroy name it... we will build it... man it... deliver it C.O.D. Risk free offer still stands. Scientific investation still invited. Question motivation government disinterest. Request public hearing immediately. And this telegram was sent to... a... officials of government... and to a long list of public communications media... including the three press wire services used by most newspapers. We have not seen a word of this message published.

Don Dunn : 1:27:02 May I look at this?

Norman Colton : 1:27:04 Radio stations... aird the message. But we have not had any... visitors from... either from government officials... we had not had any visits from... a... scientists... physicists... or any other people who wanted to challenge... our statements there... that we would like... anyone interested... who is in a position to and willing to backup his interest with... some kind of support or participation... or the ability to write an order for a craft... to come to our establishment and... either let us prove... or disprove...

Long John Nebel 1:27:48 Mr. a... Colton... I have (?)(?)... the first thirty minutes that we talked the last time. I think that a... I don't know anything about your background... as far as... sales engineering is concerned... but I think... you're a great public... great public relations man. If I ever received your telegram... I would use it... and I know that a lot of stations around the country... possibly did use it because... it is a great telegram. It's just the type of thing to end... end off... off... a fifteen minute news bit. Now... let me just ask you this... do you honestly think... that if the government... decided... wait a minute... I think you told us that you did send this to... a... the president... the vice president.

Norman Colton : 1:28:50 To the responsible government officials... who had anything to do with the... the acquisition of such craft. Or just the... a... cabinet members... the cabinet officers for... commerince... the interior... defence and so forth.

Long John Nebel 1:29:07 All right. Suppose you mean that the... government... I don't even know if they... if... if... if they're in a position to running... I don't know enough about the... the a... the running of a government. But if they could take you up on this offer... you know as well as I do man... but you couldn't manufacture this... on a scale (?).

Norman Colton : 1:29:33 We feel we...

Long John Nebel 1:29:33 There is a lot I don't know... unless... unless you fellows are already...

Norman Colton : 1:29:36 There is no mystery to it.

Long John Nebel : 1:29:38 ... financed. Unless you have the capital... I doubt it... that's a lot of money... twenty million buck... man.

Norman Colton : 1:29:45 We don't propose to manufacture... the forty-five foot full scale device... a... without... some prior preparation. What we say is this... a... lets say... you are... Secretary McElroy. You sit across the table from me as a representative of O.T.C. Enterprises...

Long John Nebel : 1:30:08 I'd like (?)(?)... I'll need a new coat (?)(?).

Margaret Storm : 1:30:11 laughs...

Norman Colton : 1:30:13 I'd like to say at this point... that a... I want to thank you for your kind remark... and a... the admiration is mutual... mutual.

Long John Nebel : 1:30:22 That's a... (?).

Margaret Storm : 1:30:23 laughs...

Norman Colton : 1:30:28 You're a... McElroy... or Sherman Adams or... whom ever is qualified and authorized to... write out an order... for a prototype Circular Foil Spacecraft.

Long John Nebel : 1:30:39 On a C.O.D. basis.

Norman Colton : 1:30:40 On a C.O.D. basis. Now you write the order. Which of course we understand is backed up by treasury funds. When the product is delivered... we can cash the check.

Long John Nebel : 1:30:51 Not just delivered sir.

Norman Colton : 1:30:53 Well... demonstrated... orbited...

Long John Nebel : 1:30:55 That's right.

Norman Colton : 1:30:55 ... so forth. According to specifications and requirements... as set up. You write the order... and you hand it to the man at the end of the table... who we'll say would be the... trust officer... of a substantial bank... or... a representative of the American Arbitration Association... or some other disinterested third party... who would hold that order in escrow. We would then... before we pick up the order... and before we... saddle you with that commitment... to deliver us any funds... at any time... under any circumstances... we would make a demonstration of a... (?)... lets say... a five foot diameter... or ten foot diameter. Which we could manufacture in a matter of days... for a few thousand dollars. Then when we make this...

Long John Nebel : 1:31:50 (?)(?)(?)(?) Could you be a little more definite?

Norman Colton : 1:31:56 More definite?

Long John Nebel : 1:31:56 Yeah... when you say... a few thousand dollars?

Norman Colton : 1:31:59 A few thousand dollars?

Long John Nebel : 1:32:00 Is that... five thousand...

Norman Colton : 1:32:01 I could even do...

Long John Nebel : 1:32:02 ... four thousand... or twenty thousand?

Norman Colton : 1:32:03 ... lets say... seven thousand five hundred dollars of the basic cost... for a twenty foot prototype model. Now this is not...

Long John Nebel : 1:32:10 What do you mean by... interest intent?

Norman Colton : 1:32:13 Well the... a dollar value on today's markets... of the... copper and iron... and duralumin... and so forth... that a... go into the craft itself. Known in a... commerce as... direct cost... for the commodities. Now added to that... is the indirect cost... the... overhead... the... travel with subsistence and so forth. All of which... we estimate... would amount to no more... than... thirty thousand dollars...

Long John Nebel : 1:32:46 Thirty thousand dollars... is the price then?

Norman Colton : 1:32:48 Right. Of a miniature model.

Long John Nebel : 1:32:50 uh huh

Norman Colton : 1:32:52 We would demonstrate that miniature model... which would... in all respects... be... relatively equal... to the full scale craft. It would not have guidance systems... it would not have... crew comfort facilities and accommodations. But it would... satisfactorly demonstrate everything we've claimed about its ability to achieve... a... self propulsion... and space flight.

Bill Preston : 1:33:18 Mr. Colton... what speed would it fly at?

Norman Colton : 1:33:21 The a... speed is hypothetical... it would depend on... (?) how fast you want to rotate it... and how far away... you'd want to send it. If you put in into... the same orbital path... that the Sputniks are in... it would be going the speed of eighteen thousand miles and hour. Because once it achieves its relative rotation... and gets out a certain distance from its attractive mass... it becomes powered by... free space forces... and it... a... speed of flight is then... a... proportionate to its rotation and its distance from the mass.

...........................................................................................................

end of interview : 1:34:07

what kind of force was used to spin the model?
Electricity from our Utron Electrical Accumulator.
Electromotive.
How how big was the model that became airborn?
one was four feet in diameter and one was four and a half and the largest model we built was six feet.
The OTC X-1 as we planned it at Space Maryland Space Research Institute will be forty-five feet in diameter and weigh approximately fifteen ton.
all great developments are usually basically simple and are easily understood by ordinary language.
when it was published in the Philadelphia Inquire that the models shown does not meet the present
or foreseeable needs
of the Army.
This is a long way
around to your wire that questioned whether we would return the twenty million dollars. The direct answer to the question is
we won't even collect the twenty milion dollars until we have made a successful demonstration not only of principle but of flight worthiness of a small prototype model of the craft.
We would demonstrate that miniature model which would in all respects be relatively equal to the full scale craft. It would not have guidance systems it would not have crew comfort facilities and accommodations. But it would satisfactorly demonstrate everything we've claimed about its ability to achieve self propulsion and space flight.
last update
13 April 2012 ~ 18:01 EST
Comments Welcome... via email
Transcribed by : Curtis Cooperman
Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
..Listen 11 July 1958 second half
.Margaret Storm~~.~knew Tesla
..Listen 11 July 1958 second half
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla
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