Recorded
WOR Radio
New York ~ 1958
Long John Nebel Show
Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 15 November 1958 ~ first third

Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~.Listen 15 Nov 1958 first third
.Margaret Storm~~.~loved Tesla
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla
Nikola Tesla
Time Magazine
20 July 1931
Circular Foil Spacecraft
Utron Electrical Accumulator

Using Space itself as the catalyst for the
interchangeable forces of electromagnetism and gravity
Nikola Tesla taught Otis T. Carr... how to capture energy for free.
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Long John Nebel... host this show called... The Party Line
This show has three people on the panel plus the host... all questioning
Otis T. Carr & Norman Colton.
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Otis T. Carr
Norman Colton
Ben Isquith
Ellery Lanier
Lester del Rey
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Otis T. Carr

15 November 1958
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Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 15 November 1958 ~ first third

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Long John Nebel : 0:00:10 Good morning neighbors... this is Long John with... The Party Line. We're around from midnight to five thirty... six mornings during the week. Monday morning we get started about one... continue through to five thirty. And that means... we're around for about thirty seven and a half hours... each and every week. During that time... I have the pleasure of talking with many interesting people. And we talk about a lot of off beat subjects. In fact tomorrow night... rather tonight at midnight... because we are into Saturday morning already. I understand we'll be having a... group of ladies up here... a... followers of a famous... Yogi. And a... he will go in trance... and we will have a seance. I'm just wondering whether Jack Keen will show that morning... we'll find out thought. Well... lets not talk about what is going to be happening Sunday morning. 0:00:57 Lets talk about what's going to be happening today... Saturday morning. We're going to be talking with Otis T. Carr... and Norman Colton... of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. We've talking about these gentleman many times... and we've talked with them many times. And we've discussed the... circular... craft. At the moment I am just ad libbing this... I forget the technical name... the Circular Foil Craft... that was it. And here is the flight plan... of the OTC X-1 on Operation Moon. Take off...
at 12:01 AM... the seventh day of December 1959. The craft will depart from Space Maryland... in a vertical rise... and beginning orbit... of the Earth... at a speed of five thousand miles per hour. Now this is just one little idea of what's going to happen. And of course we've been told... the pilot will be...
Otis T. Carr... the navigator... Major Wayne Aho of Washington D.C. 0:02:15 Now I know that for a moment... some people that possibly... are tuning in for the very first time to... The Party Line. They say... what goes... what is this... science fiction? Gee... frankly... I don't know what it is. I can only say this... that I have in front of me... a mock-up... of the spacecraft. And we're going to be talking about that... we'll give you a description of it. I have the gentleman seated around the table. And with all of that... we should have a... something... that a... will prove to be of interest to all of our listeners. Ben Isquith the cybernetician will be with us in a couple of minutes. Ellery Lanier is with us... author of the book... in titled... A Manual of Real Magic... and Lester del Rey... author of... Rockets Through Space. Will arrive about two or two thirty this morning... he's attending... a science fiction convention I understand... in... the city of brotherly love... Philadelphia. 0:03:19 And a... just as soon as he can get back... he'll be here... because he's... very excited about the opportunity of talking to these gentleman. And you may not buy any of this. I don't myself. But I'll tell you one thing... it's wonderful listening. And who knows... maybe they'll be going to the Moon... the seventh day of December 1959. Otis T. Carr... Norman Colton... Ellery Lanier... Ben Isquith... and Lester del Rey.
Mr. Carr... first of all... we welcome you back to... The Party Line... and we certainly are very excited... to know more about... this a... trip to the Moon.
I understand the take-off... will be at 12:01 AM... the seventh day of December 1959. Do you really think... that you'll take-off?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:10 Good evening... a... Long John... we're happy to be here... and we really think... we will take-off. Maybe not right at 12:01... but on the seventh of December 1959... early in the morning.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:23 Why would there be a delay... why would you take-off at twelve thirty or one o'clock?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:29 Well... we understand that a... some space people have advised us... to make a little bit later departure on this date.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:36 Space people? Are... are you... are you talking about the people... connected with Cape Canaveral... or are you talking about... Venusians or Martians... which?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:45 We don't know whether... they're Martians or Venusians. But some very kind friends told us... that they received a message from outer space... telling us that the... magnetic fields would be much more favorable if we made our departure... about two hours later.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:00 Well Mr. Carr... after listening to that statement... I'm certainly going to have a number of questions. Do you mean to sit here and say... as an alleged scientist... as a designer... as an inventor... and tell me... that... Otis T. Carr... the president of O.T.C. Enterprises... would be guided... by medi-physicians... by people claiming that they're receiving messages... telepathically evidently... communication from Venus and Mars. As a scientist would you... permit these things to... sort of sway your mind?

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:48 Well... the first thing that a scientist does... is investage the source. We don't know... whether this is true or not. But we have well over a year... to have other event come up that may... make it worth considering. We certainly plan to leave on December 7th 1959... we hope it is 12:01 AM. If sufficient evidence is given to us... to make it later... we will certainly investigate it.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:19 I mean... there's nothing to be ashamed of leaving a little later...

Otis T. Carr : 0:06:22 Not at all.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:22 ... we wouldn't ridicule you... believe me. If you get off at twelve thirty or one o'clock... laughs... we'll talk about it. laughs...

Otis T. Carr : 0:06:27 I believe this is true.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:29 Let me ask you this... a... Mr. Carr... a... did you say that the... messages... that you've received or people associated with you... have been receiving these telepathic communications... a... did you make a statement... that a... the warning... was that... there are other magnetic fields that may disturb the... possible take-off?

Otis T. Carr : 0:06:54 This was the information... that was handed to us... unsolicited by us. We mention it... because by the time that we're ready to take-off... evidence may... be in this direction.

Long John Nebel : 0:07:08 What do you mean by... other... magnetic fields? How many magnetic fields... do you know of... at the present time... Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:15 We only know of the one that we are working in.

Long John Nebel : 0:07:21 And... do you feel that... there is something to this message?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:26 Not a thing at the present moment.

Long John Nebel : 0:07:30 Not a thing at the present moment?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:32 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:07:32 Well... is the implication then... that around the... first week in December in the year of 1959... that... we may discover... a new magnetic field?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:45 We may discover new forces in this field. New discoveries are coming up... all the time.

Long John Nebel : 0:07:50 Could you elaborate on that... what do you mean by new forces... Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:54 New understanding of the forces. This is a matter of discovery. It's like the space age. We have always had the space age... John. But the a... consciousness of people are just beginning to understand... that there is such an age. So we may have new understandings about magnetic fields... within a year from now.

Long John Nebel : 0:08:18 You're insisting then on... on making that word... field... plural.

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:23 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:08:23 It's fields... not field.

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:25 Right... that's right.

Long John Nebel : 0:08:28 uh huh... a... Mr. Carr... there's one thing that I have noticed... during the past year. And I think it... I think it has been... almost a year... since your first appearence... maybe a little less... but... we've talked to you... two or three times... I've also met you... a... well... one day we talked at the... space convention that... was held in... New Jersey...

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:55 That's right. Beautiful day.

Long John Nebel : 0:08:57 Yes it was. Lets not discuss the convention. The day... I agree with you... it was beautiful sir. The very first time... that we had the pleasure of talking to you... Mr. Carr... over the WOR mics. I was impressed... in a way. I didn't believe the story... I didn't buy it. But very frankly I was impressed with the literature... and the... a... the mock-ups... and the different a... models that you brought to the studio here. But... during the past year... in talking to you... on two or three other occasions... I have a... a feeling that a... you... you seem to be getting involved in metaphysics... in the occult. In other words... you're bringing... a little mysticism into something that... originally you presented... as... a... something you considered to be... scientific.

Otis T. Carr : 0:10:05 We consider... all of our work to be discoveries... to be scientific... although we claim not to be a scientist... we are a true investigator of nature. There is nothing wrong with mysticism. Mysticism is not mystery. It is knowledge... gained by a past. We have had some training in these fields and have been a great help to us... in the further development... of our enterprise. We might state... that Benjamin Franklin... a... that a... Faraday... Sir Francis Bacon... were mystics. And I think... that what they left the world... they may not have gone to MIT... but I do believe... they left something lasting... for the world.

Long John Nebel : 0:10:57 Was this the Bacon that wrote... a... Shakespeare?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:00 Well... this is what many people claim that he did... Francis Bacon.

Long John Nebel : 0:11:04 What do you think about that Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:06 I know that he wrote... Novum Organum... which... an advancement in learning... which we feel... is the yardstick... of all discoveries of science today. He was one of the most profound... people that ever lived on this planet in our... recorded history. He... a... was a mystic. And in the same sense... so am I. I make no classification... of the relationship... but by achievement... that I am the same type of mystic that... Michael Faraday was... or... Benjamin Franklin... or... Francis Bacon.

Long John Nebel : 0:11:47 I wonder if you'd be kind enough Mr. Carr... to define the word... mystic... as you're employing it this morning. In other words... you're telling me that... that you're a mysitc... like Benjamin Franklin... like Bacon. To be very honest with you... I... frankly am not familiar enough with their lives to be able to understand... how you're using the word... mystic. Could you tell me... why you consider yourself to be a mystic... and what is mystical about you?

Otis T. Carr : 0:12:18 Only that we follow a path of learning. All have followed the same path... this goes back into recorded history. It is an... an approach to true knowledge... and what is metaphysical many times today... becomes physical... ten years from now. The mystic explorers... the potentiality of all things... rather then just... purely... the physical... as he sees it. Now in this sense... we are... a true mystic. The defination is well given in any dictionary... ... or any encyclopedia. And you'll find out... that it does not mean... mystery... or mysterious. I... my thoughts are far away from giving you a true defination... except as I have outlined it here. But if any of your a... staff wants to come up with an encyclopedia... you'll find... what we have stated... is correct. 0:13:14 In so far as science is concerned... this is an approach to nature... and we have followed some natural laws... rather than... unnatural ones... to make it possible for us to confidently state... that we have a principle... that will bring man... into Space. In to exploration of space travel... and return safely. And that we can do this... within a year.

Long John Nebel : 0:13:43 A moment ago... you a... described a... Bacon... as being one of the most... profound men... that ever lived... on this planet. Was there an implication... in that a... statement... that... there are people living on other planets?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:05 We confidently feel that there are. We can not possibly conceive... of a vast number... of suns and planets revolving around them... without life. We can go into the desert... we've been there this Summer... and turn up a rock... and find... in an arid wasteland some form of life. And we just can't conceive... of the creator... putting in our own planetary system... other planets... revolving around our Sun... the same as our does... and not also... make life available there.

Long John Nebel : 0:14:48 uh huh... Ellery... at the moment I'm a little speechless... I notice you are too.

Ellery Lanier : 0:14:54 Yeah... I wanted to ask you Mr. Carr... when you fly to the Moon next year... are you planning to stay there for some time... or do you plan to come right back to Earth?

Otis T. Carr : 0:15:05 No we do not plan to land. Our flight plan... which we have furnished... here in our literature... is... a velocity that will take us to... orbit around the Moon... five hours from departure... from Space Maryland. We will not land on the Moon. We do not think... on this first trip. Our plan flight... is to immediately complete this orbit... which is... a figure eight... so to speak... and return... to the planet Earth. Our... flight plan... is five thousand miles... first orbit around the Earth... eighteen thousand miles... and the second orbit... per hour. Which will take us through... the heavy side layor... or the ionosphere. And the third orbit... at approximately one thousand miles out... will be twenty five thousand miles an hour. At which time... we will... accelerate and fall... towards the Moon... at seventy six thousand miles per hour. We will be out seven days. But our experience of flight will be approximately ten hours.

Ellery Lanier : 0:16:22 Mr. Carr... who is your navigator?

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:27 Myself and Major Aho... have already declared our intentions... of making this trip. We have not selected the third party. We will use conventional guidance systems. Particually inertial guidance and computers. And at Space Maryland... who hope by radar... to keep in contact with Space at all time... until we reach... the point where we're orbiting on the other side of the Moon... at which time we will loose contact... with our planet... for a brief time.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:09 Are you planning to photograph the other side of the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 0:17:13 Both sides.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:15 In other words then... a... in December of 1959... you should be back from the Moon... with at some point during that month... a... we can expect you back with photographs of the other side of the Moon.

Otis T. Carr : 0:17:28 Exactly and also... we expect to carry... an iconiscope camera. And it's a good possibility... that we will be able to send messages direct... to the Earth... while we are in flight.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:40 How close to the... to the Moon do you expect to get?

Otis T. Carr : 0:17:43 Our calculations bring us to within... possibly... a... twenty miles of the surface.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:51 Twenty miles of the surface.

Otis T. Carr : 0:17:53 Right.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:53 That's rather a... close.

Otis T. Carr : 0:17:55 Yes it is.

Ellery Lanier : 0:17:57 huh. Isn't there any danger of your crashing to the Moon surface?

Otis T. Carr : 0:18:01 None what so ever. The velocity we have... at the time that we are going around the other side of the Moon... will be approximately... one half millon miles per hour.

Ellery Lanier : 0:18:15 Mr. Carr... I... I want to get back to something else at the moment. I have some of your literature here... and this is something that I hadn't seen. It relates to the Russian Sputnik... and I see here... that you... you a... state... that there is a possiblilty that the Russians... used... not a rocket system... but some kind of an electromagnetic device for sending their satellite up.

Otis T. Carr : 0:18:40 We feel it's possible... that they used a different fuel system... where they got aid... from the electromagnetic field. Now... our experiments... which have been successful as relates to our particular craft... gravity and electromagnetism... and electromotive force... and the fact that we have been able to ionize particles... in a magnetic field. And in as much as the Russians have a tremendously big betatron over there... they'll accelerate particles up to... billions of miles of velocity... and a... huge electromagnets. It's very possible... that they could have charged... the outer shell of their rocket... so when the first blast fuel... was used up... taking this craft into the ionosphere... it could very easily... the shell itself... become a disintegrating medium... for in repulsion... would take place. And... as the craft got lighter... it would be using fuel... which was a part of itself. This would allow for the extra weight... which they have accomplished... we know this is a fact. And... surely the standard procedure of our rockets on step stages has proven... that we can't duplicated it... up until now.

Ellery Lanier : 0:20:07 Well... I understand there are several American companies a... developing a simular system right now for... rocketry entry... as a means of... overcoming the friction of the atmosphere. It's a... system very similar... very much like what you are describing. Employing the a... forces of a... oh it always gets my tongue twisted... magnetohydrodynamics... and a. Do you... do you a... seriously think... that the Russians did us this system... to get their satellite up?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:36 It is quite possible because... it is working with our system... to this extent... that we have a force field... and no thermal problems. We can enter the Earth's atmosphere... without any difficulty... or leave it.

Ellery Lanier : 0:20:52 I want to ask you one question... which I don't know the answer to. And this is very serious. Have any of your flying saucers... or I'm... forgive me for using the term... flying saucer... I know you call it a...

Long John Nebel : 0:21:06 I think it's necessary though to identify... in the minds of our listeners... what we're discussing.

Ellery Lanier : 0:21:12 You prefer the a... the a... phrase... a... circular foil?

Otis T. Carr : 0:21:16 It is a round craft... and very simular to the observation of flying saucers.

Ellery Lanier : 0:21:21 Have any of your... circular foil crafts... actually flown... at the point?

Otis T. Carr : 0:21:28 We have had six... six successful flights with our own hand made model. Very successful... wherein every principle was checked out. We have fabricated here an exact replica... of the model... which will be fabricated for flight testing... and known publicly... and which will... be able to leave our atmosphere... if we wish it to. And orbit this planet.

Ellery Lanier : 0:21:58 Mr. Carr... you have just stated that... a certain number of your... test devices... did achieve flight.

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:06 Absolutely.

Ellery Lanier : 0:22:08 How far... and how high did they go?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:12 We were... using... hand made models... and in each instance... (?) all of the material... the cost of it was... was... was an exhaustion of funds... and we couldn't a... afford long flights... so we used circuit breakers... and in each instance the flight was a minute. Wherein we got the height... well up over... a thousand feet... and often times... in they're coming down... it did't come straight down. It got caught with the wind current... and we tracked for two miles on many of occasions. Five successful flights with the same model... which had to be rebuilt each time... because it cracked up when it landed.

Ellery Lanier : 0:22:51 What was the size of the... of this model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:54 The last one was six feet... when we put a leading edge around... a... six inches... a... of diameter... great than it was before. The... these... the last model that we flew... six feet in diameter... hand made believe me... all but the machine made parts... of the electromagnet and the accumulator.

Ellery Lanier : 0:23:13 What was the weight... of this...?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:16 The mechanical parts in the model... weighed... a little over... 16 pounds. The... the actual... a frame of the model... weighed two pounds and 7 ounces...

Ellery Lanier : 0:23:29 Isn't that rather light for a six foot...

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:32 It was...

Ellery Lanier : 0:23:32 ... device?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:32 ... it was built light. Believe me... it was built the same as a model airplane. Now... and the heaviest part about it was the... was the... roller skate bearings... which we got for nineteen cents... union hardward.

Ellery Lanier : 0:23:47 I know those bearings.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:48 Right.

Ellery Lanier : 0:23:49 Very good.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:50 They were our... counter rotating bearings. And... the... other... material... weighed approximately a little over... sixteen pounds. Now... we had... a little electronic... built by the guy from the model shop... the same... as the boys use... in model airplanes... a little timer... and this functioned beautifully... with a... couple of batteries. So that a... a... we had... a system of remote control... shutting on and off power. Which worked on the ground. But when this... craft became airborn... my little system... refused to work... and I lost this craft. It went out of sight.

Ellery Lanier : 0:24:36 You mean it disappeared?

Otis T. Carr : 0:24:37 It disappeared into the atmosphere.

Ellery Lanier : 0:24:39 Going up... or down?

Otis T. Carr : 0:24:40 Going up.

Ellery Lanier : 0:24:42 You mean it... may be somewhere out near the Moon now?

Otis T. Carr : 0:24:45 No. It was too fragile. We are confident that it cracked up. We hoped we'd find some reports about something being found. We never did. We carried identification on it.

Ellery Lanier : 0:24:58 I believe every word you say Mr. Carr. But... I am... I am completely dumbfounded... I a... I want to know... when this... device or this craft... flew into the atmosphere. Was its outer surface... completely sealed off... as a... the way the wings of an airplane... or are there any open... a... vent areas... for atmosphere to a...

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:20 There's plenty... plenty of open vent areas. The leading edge was appromimately... six inches in diameter... and we didn't take... the bother to cover... the rest of the surfaces.

Ellery Lanier : 0:25:33 Did the a... device rotate or spin?

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:36 Absolutely... this is the principle. Counterrotation... a... relative to the Earth's rotation... in a magnetic field. It works.

Ellery Lanier : 0:25:44 But Mr. Carr... isn't it possible that you were relying or aerodynamics?

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:50 Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Long John Nebel : 0:25:55 I agree with him.

Ellery Lanier : 0:25:57 Was the outer surface... a smooth surface... of this... this a...

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:01 Very similar...

Ellery Lanier : 0:26:01 ... circular foil device.

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:02 ... very similar... to the surface here. We used 64 inch balsa wood... covered it with... silk screen... and several coates of dope.

Ellery Lanier : 0:26:10 And when this device started to spin... it went up into the air?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:14 It went up into the air. And out of sight.

Ellery Lanier : 0:26:17 And not by aero... not by aerodynamic force then?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:20 By... gravity... and electromagnetism... and electromotive force. Inter changable and operating... in a field.

Long John Nebel : 0:26:29 Let me intrupt for just a moment... to remind our listeners... that this is... WOR Radio... your station in New York... and this is Long John... with... The Party Line. Now... Mr. Carr... without going into a commerical... I would appreciate it... if you will answer a question for me. The question is namly this... why did O.T.C. Enterprises... decide to offer to hobbyist... and to model builders... an opportunity to buy plans... for the OTC
X-1 Circular Foil Craft?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:06 We feel... that this will help to accelerate interest... in the proper way... to enter into the space age. Our information... our tests and our scientific knowledge which has been verified. Has proven to us that rockets are not the proper... way for men to travel. Now the model boys... in the past... years... believe me... experimented and built many of the wings that are on our airplanes today. I have seen... swept wing airplanes... in the early thirties... built by model hobbyist... that did not appear... on... on a... commerical or aviation or military planes... for fifteen years later... but appear... they did. When the hobbyist... understand this principle... and put it to work... believe me... the space age will be here. And this is what we are interested in. Now... we are making our plans known. Which is... means... making them public. And that's what... patent... is a Latin word... which means to make public.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:15 Well... Mr. Carr... a... do you say than... that if a person... has these plans... that they can build a... a working model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:26 If they will take these planes... and faithfully follow them... and build... a wood mock-up... as we have done... here. And understand these principles... they can then... order machine made parts... and when properly qualified to do so... they can build a model that will fly. Not only in our atmosphere... but out of it.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:48 Now... what do you mean by... when they are... pop... a... a... properly qualified?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:54 This is and energy principle... it is electrical... and it is powerful.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:03 I'm at a lost for words... at this point. What I'm trying to figure out Mr. Carr is this... if I have plans... to build a model... OTC X-1 Circular Foil Craft. And let us assume... that I have the... ability to build it... according to specifications. Now I'm talking about a small one.

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:30 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:31 Will it fly?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:33 It will... if it is properly built. And we give all the information.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:39 Well then... why is it Mr. Carr... that... you haven't built one?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:46 We have built one.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:49 And we don't know where it is... at the time. Is that the one that's missing?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:51 That's the one that's missing.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:53 Well what value would it be... for me... as a model builder... to spend some two weeks... two months... or... two years... I don't know how long it will take me to build one of these. To build one. When the inventor couldn't even get his back. I mean... I just don't want to... (?) build something... and it... and it goes... in to Space... and I never see it again.

Otis T. Carr : 0:30:14 We feel quite confident... that a... a... the science... has improved to a point where... models can be reclaimed. At the time... we were... experimenting. We were very happy... that we has made a new discovery... and knew that it worked. And we weren't very much interested in... so much in reclaiming a model... as we were... to get it into the air. Now... a... electronics... has improved... control systems have improved... and magnetic shielding has improved... to a point where... flight models... can be... properly controlled.

Long John Nebel : 0:30:55 The improvement... that you've just told us about... are these all listed... in the.... ?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:01 We give all the information necessary... for anybody to build a craft and fly it.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:08 Could I build a life size model... from those plans?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:11 Yes... indeed.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:13 Wouldn't it be advisable... and certainly Mr. Carr... I don't want to be presumptuous... and tell you... what you should do with your business. But wouldn't it be... a... advisable for you... to build one now... that you... you know a little more about it... to build a... maybe a... half a dozen working models?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:31 Very advisible... we have a... a couple of high priced engineers that are very busy.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:39 Doing what sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:39 Building.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:40 Building models?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:41 Absolutely

Long John Nebel : 0:31:42 How long do you think it would take... the average... a model maker... to complete his model? That is a working model... not a... mock-up?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:50 A working model... a... if he had to contract the machine made parts... it would be a matter of... time and material. If we make parts available... and we may do it... under proper qualifications... there has to be supervision under these things. Then of course... assembly... is a... a very... short period of time. Like assembling a good radio... or something else.

Long John Nebel : 0:32:14 uh huh. Could I make all of the parts... if I had a lathe?

Otis T. Carr : 0:32:20 You would have to have a... more than a lathe. A pretty qualified machine shop... to finish all parts.

Long John Nebel : 0:32:29 Even for the model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:32:30 That's right. That is for a working model. Of our principles. But however... we have here... an educational system... of basics in this... that anybody... any model maker... any hobbyist... will be tremendously happy to fabracate this... knowing that he is... helping to make history. Because here... by the time he gets it done... and properly painted it... and (?)... and admires it... we'll be out into Space. In many instances.

Long John Nebel : 0:33:01 You mean it would take him that long to make a...

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:03 Not necessarily.

Long John Nebel : 0:33:03 ... a wooden model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:04 No not a wooden model.

Long John Nebel : 0:33:05 Because you're going to be leaving... a... the... seventh of December.

Long John Nebel
Host
We're going to be talking with Otis T. Carr and Norman Colton of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland.
frankly I don't know what it is. I can only say this that I have in front of me a mock-up of the spacecraft.
very frankly
I was impressed with the literature and the mock-ups and
the different models that you brought to the studio here. But during the past year in talking to you on two or three other occasions I have a feeling that you seem to be getting involved in metaphysics in the occult. In other words you're bringing a little mysticism into something that originally you presented as something you considered to be scientific.
I make no classification of the relationship but by achievement that I am the same type of mystic that Michael Faraday was or Benjamin Franklin or Francis Bacon.
In so far as science is concerned this is an approach to nature and
we have followed some natural laws rather than unnatural ones
to make
it possible for us to confidently state that we have a principle that will bring man into Space.
we just can't conceive of the creator putting in our own planetary system other planets revolving around our Sun the same as our does and not also make life available there.
At which time we will accelerate and fall towards the Moon at seventy six thousand miles per hour. We will be out seven days. But our experience of flight will be approximately ten hours.
It's very possible that they could have charged the outer shell of their rocket
This would allow for the extra weight which they have accomplished we know this is a fact. And surely the standard procedure of our rockets on step stages has proven that we can't duplicated it up until now.
We can enter the Earth's atmosphere without any difficulty or leave it.
We have had six successful flights with our own hand made model. Very successful wherein every principle was checked out.
Wherein we got the height well up over a thousand feet and often times in they're coming down it did't come straight down.
it was built the same as a model airplane. Now and the heaviest part about it was the roller skate bearings which we got for nineteen cents...
I believe every word you say Mr. Carr.
Did the device rotate or spin?
Absolutely this is the principle. Counterrotation relative to the Earth's rotation in a magnetic field. It works.
And when this device started to spin it went up into the air?
It went up into the air. And out of sight.
By gravity
and electromagnetism
and electromotive force.
Inter changable and operating in a field.
why did O.T.C. Enterprises decide to offer to hobbyist and to model builders an opportunity to buy plans for the OTC X-1
Circular Foil Craft?
Fantastic Question
We feel that this will help to accelerate interest in the proper way to enter into the space age.
When the hobbyist understand this principle and put it to work believe me the space age
will be here.
they can build a model that will fly.
This is and energy principle it is electrical and it is powerful.
It will if it is properly built. And we give all the information.
We give all the information necessary
for anybody to build a craft and fly it.
Could I build a life size model from those plans?
Yes indeed.
we have here an educational system of basics in this that anybody any model maker
any hobbyist will be tremendously happy to fabracate this knowing that he is helping to make history.
Ellery Lanier

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:07 Well... we'll have space flights... before we go to the Moon.

Ellery Lanier : 0:33:11 Mr. Carr... do you have problem of... of gravitational pull against your body... when you fly off... in this saucer?

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:18 Not at all. The force field here... and the magnetic field that we're in... and the gravity field... which we set up... makes us as comfortable... inside our cabin... as we are here... in this room. Now we are all on a spaceship... right now... the planet Earth. And it is travelling... at well over sixty six thousand miles... per hour... in its orbit around the Sun. We are comfortable. Now why are we? It's because we have a force field. The force field is the ionosphere... the heavy side layer... the electrical aura around the Earth... which (?) comfort... instead of being... (?). With this (?).

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:03 How about the air supply... when you fly off to the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:06 We will have to carry it with us. Ours will be a sealed creature comfort cabin... a cabin... and we expect to employ... the best engineers in the industry... to make sure it is properly (?).

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:19 Are you... do you have any plans... for using green plants for algae to... (?)...

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:23 No... not on this first craft. Our craft will be a Model-T... we can not go into such refinement. We just hope we don't have to get out and crank it.

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:33 Well... what would happen if you did?

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:34 What a picture... laughs...

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:37 Right... right in the middle of a lunar... inside a lunar creater... cranking up the saucer.

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:44 It will run.

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:46 Your saucer does seem to have a cup on top of it... sort of.

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:48 uh huh

Long John Nebel : 0:34:50 Is that where the crew is going to... can you put that together again Mr. Colton please. Reassemble that please.

Ellery Lanier : 0:34:55 I... I don't think the listeners... are quite aware of the fact that we had... a... a model of the flying saucer in the studio. Which... which looks... absolutely fabulous... it's... silver with a blue edge. And Mr. Colton is putting it together... he has the top of the saucer... which is a sort of... an inverted dish... a silver dish... when the... I think its about... how... what diameter is this?

Otis T. Carr : 0:35:19 (?)

Norman Colton : 0:35:19 Twenty four inches.

Ellery Lanier : 0:35:20 Twenty four inches... it looks a little more than that.

Norman Colton : 0:35:23 The scale of the... kit plans are identical like this.

Ellery Lanier : 0:35:27 And it has sort of a... tripod... a... foot effect. Sort of like three knuckles... on the bottom... on which the thing rests.

Long John Nebel : 0:35:35 Well... with those... that's a landing gear.

Ellery Lanier : 0:35:37 I guess that is because...

Norman Colton : 0:35:38 That's a landing gear.

Ellery Lanier : 0:35:39 That's the landing gear... and now the equivalent of... the cup is going into the saucer.

Long John Nebel : 0:35:44 Well... isn't where the crew would be housed... on top there?

Otis T. Carr : 0:35:47 No. The crew are housed in this area where you see the (?) portholes...

Long John Nebel : 0:35:52 I see. uh huh

Otis T. Carr : 0:35:53 And down even into the body of the saucer itself.

Long John Nebel : 0:35:57 Weil the... will the dome...

Otis T. Carr : 0:36:00 This is for observation.

Long John Nebel : 0:36:02 In other words a... the... the a... crew... can come up into that dome?

Otis T. Carr : 0:36:07 Well... in this model... the OTC X-1... which will be forty five feet in diameter. This cabin... a... total diameter of it will be... fifteen feet. So... there would not be room... for... a... the crew... to completely rest up there. This is a place for observation... a... and instruments... particulary our... conoscope camera... a... telescope... and things of this nature... will be used... a... to... explore further out... from where we are... a... as relates to our... horizonal position.

Ellery Lanier : 0:36:45 Won't... won't there be rather a great danger of... intense sunburns in that observation dome?

Otis T. Carr : 0:36:51 There is great dangers... at all the time. We expect that our test research hanger... at Space Maryland... to a... explore these dangers... and try to shield against them to the best of our ability.

Ellery Lanier : 0:37:08 How many windows are there in the divice?

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:10 We plan to have six port holes.

Ellery Lanier : 0:37:13 And what will be the size of these port holes... you'll be looking out of these port holes... while your flying around the Moon... won't you?

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:19 Yes... but we can shield them also... we will have a... shielding away from a... radition coming through them... and a... some of them will use for observation. We a... will certainaly... use a... an awful lot of electronic equipment... for a... guidance and so forth. From our landing gear... which is at the bottom of the craft... and also cameras from our landing gear... also at the bottom of it.

Ellery Lanier : 0:37:45 Mr. Carr... are you planning... to take along any defensive weapons in case you are attacked in inner space?

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:52 No. We've... to begin with... we do not expect to be attacked. And number two... our force field... a... will protect us to a great extent. This... this craft... glows. The electromagnetics ionized field... around this craft... in our atmosphere... and right through the ionosphere... will shine and glow like a... well like a fluorescent light... particularly at night. Now this field... will disburse most all particles... small meteorites... a... much of the radiation... and we will be protected. In so far as being attacted is concerned... not from anything from this planet are we worried about. Because we have maneuverability... we can change our orbit anytime we want to... and any missile would be a sitting duck to us.

Ellery Lanier : 0:38:44 Well a... the Russians may have a... lunar moon probe going... or a satellite going around the Moon at the time that you are up there. And there's even a possibliity... that you might crash into the Russian... a... moon satellite.

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:00 No... we... we will not crash into anything. Our... our instruments and our force field will portect us at all times... and guide us... automatically... away from crashing into any large object.

Ellery Lanier : 0:39:11 Well... what is the reason that you won't land on the Moon this time?

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:15 We don't have time... to prepare for it. The... one thing about the Moon... we don't know what's up there... this is the first thing. The most powerful telescope only gets us within about five hundred miles of the surface.

Ellery Lanier : 0:39:31 You're going to be twenty miles.

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:32 That's right. We can conjecture a lot about the Moon... but until we actually get there... we do not know. Now... the conjectural part of it and preparing against it... would take up too much time for this first voyage. That's why... we do not plan to land. However... maybe there's a space station is already up there on the other side... maybe we'll be invited to land.

Ellery Lanier : 0:39:56 Well... what are you referring to?

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:57 There is a possibility...

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:00 That's whose space station will be there.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:02 Could be from Mars... Venus... Jupiter.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:05 You mean... a... a a space station... of another world?

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:09 Right... another er... another planet.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:11 Another planet.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:12 Right.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:13 Having established the space station around the Moon.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:15 Very possible.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:17 And a... you may... you may sort of pay a friendly visit... you may talk to one another.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:21 We my be invited.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:22 You may be invited.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:23 Or escorted.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:25 Is there any indication... that this may happen?
I mean... have you had any kind of communication implying such a possibility?

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:31 We know this... that there is space travel... already. This we know.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:38 Not by earth men?

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:40 Apparently not.

Ellery Lanier : 0:40:42 But you don't... do you know... do you have any indication from where this other space travel is?

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:47 No we haven't. In our... experiments... which incidentally we started on the exploration of this development... way back in 1925... right here in New York City. It took many years... to come up with the basic principle. But when we had completed them... believe it or not... we saw electrified craft in the air. We had five sightings... and we are trained observers... and this is no accident.

Ellery Lanier : 0:41:14 What year was that?

Otis T. Carr : 0:41:15 This was in 1951 and '52.

Ellery Lanier : 0:41:18 I see. Mr. Carr... I... I... for my own satisfaction... I'd like to ask you... if you are familiar with the work of... Mr. a... John Wallace Kealey? (sp)

Otis T. Carr : 0:41:28 It's been brought to our attention several times. But we have a... not followed... anywhere in his path.

Ellery Lanier : 0:41:35 Are you familiar... with the method that he used?

Otis T. Carr : 0:41:37 Not too much. We understand something about a... natural magnets... having their... potential accelerated by multiplicity. But we don't work in this field.

Ellery Lanier : 0:41:48 Well... I... I had the pleasure of... studing one of Mr. Kealey's (sp) machines. This was a very... beautifully made device. And I believe it was made before nine... the year nineteen hundred. And he... he did achieve flight... with his device. And it did had... have a revolving spherical rather than a saucer shape... unit. And I know... that he... he was proposing to use these a... spherical units to... take people around New York City... instead of the old fashion elevator train. And a... I was very curious... I wanted to know... whether this basic principle that you were using... was a development in the same direction?

Otis T. Carr : 0:42:28 We're not... familiar with what Mr. Kealey done... only by... reference that has been brought to our attention orally. Unquestionably if he was using a magnetic field... he is on the right track.

Ellery Lanier : 0:42:43 Well... there was a question of harmonics. Is there any element of harmonic... a... vibration involved in your device?

Otis T. Carr : 0:42:52 We know much about a... a... sonics and harmonics. So far as we know... it is not used... or at least we don't... if the principle is being applied... we're not aware of it. We are using... electromotive force... gravity... electromagnetism... and Space itself as a catalyst.

Ellery Lanier : 0:43:16 Do you incidently make use of... magnetic explosions?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:21 I wouldn't call them explosions. What happens here is... that we have twelve releases... with every... a... pulsating... on and off... current... with every rotation of this craft. This... this when it accelerates... up to... a rather high rotational velocity... it sets up a field... which in a sense like a... fan wave. It is somewhat like alternating... a... current... a... that... a... used with phase a... ba... multipolar... phase motors... now...

Ellery Lanier : 0:43:57 That's very clear so far.

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:59 Right... now... what we have added here are... mutually conducting capacitor plates. Which to our knowledge have not been used in this sense before by anybody. These plates which become charged in this field and release their charge... release it... into... the entire outer shell of our craft. Thereby... setting up this force field... which makes it possible for us... not to worry about a thermal barrier... because we are practically... travelling in our own vacuum.

Ellery Lanier : 0:44:32 What kinds of control devices do you have in there... an instrument panel from which you a... regulate...

Otis T. Carr : 0:44:38 Yes... now... this... the circuit breaking rheostat... a... a... regulators... and all of the standard electrical equipment. We have really unique control... panel... which has... for each electromagnet where the circuit is first made... and where the power system begins... we have one control for that. So that our control panel here consists... of... of a circle... of twelve... of these controls. Now... bisecting this by... a horizonal and vertical line... we can go in any direction... by changing this field. As these magnets... magnets go through this field... by reducing them... we go in this direction.

Ellery Lanier : 0:45:24 Can you a... resist... I don't like to call it a flying machine... although it is a flying machine... and it is a machine...

Otis T. Carr : 0:45:32 It is a spaceship.

Ellery Lanier : 0:45:33 It's a machine... and it flies... and it can fly... into outer space... and your going to fly to the Moon... with this machine. Can this machine... hover in the air... in a stationary manner... the way a helicopter does?

Otis T. Carr : 0:45:46 Yes indeed. When... when we reach the relative rotation of the Earth... and this is... a... strickly by diameter... by the size of our craft... in diameter... rather than by mass and weight. When we reach this relative rotation we become airborn. Absolutly weightless... as regards to the Earth. Now if we keep this... as an equal... we'll just stand still... when we accelerate... we start to move.

Ellery Lanier : 0:46:16 I feel as though... I'm flying to the Moon right now.

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:19 It is this near.

Ellery Lanier : 0:46:21 And I want to be a... want to be one of your first passengers... Mr. Carr.

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:26 We're confident... that by the time that we... take off... a little over a year from now... that thousands of people on this planet will be perfectly conscious of the fact... that the electromagnet... gravity... electromotive force machine is a reality... and that the space age is here.

Ellery Lanier : 0:46:46 What kind of conforts do you have in this a... machine that you are going to use?

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:51 Well... outside the atmosphere... naturally... we will have to keep this... a sealed cabin. Our problem is very similar... to... a cabin in a submarine... just reverse it a little bit. There they have tremendous pressure... here we have the absence of pressure. So we have to try to maintain... a comfortable 1G of gravity... plus... a resonablle atmospheric pressure... where breathing will be normal and comfortable.

Ellery Lanier : 0:47:20 Do you have a... couches or beds for sleeping in... on your trip?

Otis T. Carr : 0:47:25 We are going to have... foldaway cots. My a... secretary... a... of our corporation... Mrs. Hildeguard Shay... is also a designer... (?) training. And she's been working on... foldaway designs for this cabin.

Long John Nebel : 0:47:45 Mr. Carr... I have a couple of questions that a... I've a... wanted to ask you... for a few months now... actually since the last time... we met at the... in Lebenon New Jersey. I have a... talked with a... number of people on... The Party Line. And I have always been... very grateful that they've been kind enough to appear... such a Dan Fry... a... George Van Tassel... and many others... I could... spend maybe thirty minutes... just... mentioning the names of different people. Again I repeat... I'm very grateful that these men have been kind enough to appear on... The... Party Line. My question is this... why do you... Otis T. Carr... President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated... Incorporated... of Baltimore Maryland... bother to appear... at these so called... space conventions? Of course you could through the question back to me... and before you do... I'll answer it. I go there as a reporter. Why do you go there sir... and lecture?

Otis T. Carr : 0:49:11 Well... there is a certain amount of identification here... and a certain amount of high interest. I myself...

Long John Nebel : 0:49:17 I'm glad you used that word... identification. Are you identifying yourself sir... with the Dan Frys and the George Van Tassel?

Otis T. Carr : 0:49:25 I would say with Mr. Dan Fry... whom we have met... that he is a qualified engineer... and scientist. And I believe... that his book... The Steps to the Stars... has verified our principle... although I didn't know it was written at the time we started to (?).

Long John Nebel : 0:49:45 And therefore... you see... you feel... that it's advisable for you... as the president of this corporation. A corporation that's planning... to... take off at 12:01 AM... on the seventh day of December 1959. And you intend to take off at that time and on that day to a... go to the Moon... is that right? And you feel... that you should be at these... space craft conventions and...?

Otis T. Carr : 0:50:14 I think it's wonderful to be invited... to which... is what has happened. We have found people to be sincere. We have found most of them to be extremely courteous... and have a higher consciousness in many respects. They have witnessed... they have seen craft. They are a... doctors... they are lawyers... they are scientists.

Long John Nebel : 0:50:39 May I... may I interrupt you for a moment... to tell me the name... of... one medical doctor... one attorney... one scientist... that has actually seen... a... a flying saucer?

Otis T. Carr : 0:50:56 I... I am very... hard... at remembering names. I believe that we have in our files... of letters in Baltimore... which a... incidently come from as far away as South Africa. Men of practically every typo. Now... at... a... of science. Who have... a... verified... or seen... what they could not explain... in a... as being made by man... here on this planet. Or... they have... known people... who... they believe their voracity. Therefore... a... we will take a... a... well... you can take the example of Major Aho... who... was a combat intelligence officer in World War II... and he's a... honorably retired. This man has had sufficient training of observation. When the major tells me... that he saw a craft land... I believe him. When I myself have seen them in high velocity in the air... I believe myself. The... we have... and can verify... that there are doctors... lawyers... and believe me... in Oklahoma City... the largest television station there... has a... one of the most popular programs in the state. And the moderator of this program... the man in charge of it... like you Long John... has also seen a spacecraft... himself. We were on the program... for approximately one hour... on television... live... and we accepted telephone calls. As there was a certain amount of demonstration of our model... and our flight plan. In this call... and we should have in our records... this man's name. He a... identified himself... as a Ph.D physicist... a man who has talked physics... in the state of Oklahoma... and who was... a qualified electronic engineer... he volunteered to be the third passenger on our... flight... which was quite... heavy scientific evaluation.

Long John Nebel : 0:53:26 Lets get back with our guests again. You a... you've just given us a... your opinion about... Major Wayne Aho. I'll go out on record... and saying... that I think this is a... very pleasant man to know... very considerate man... sensitive individual. But the fact that he was a Major... the fact that he was an Intelligence Officer... does not necessarily mean... that the man has... a... knowledge of a... of space or spacecraft... or anything like that. Why are you so sold on this man?

Otis T. Carr : 0:54:10 The only thing is this... that we feel... that a... a man of such character... would not say... that he saw a craft land... if he didn't see it land. We find him... dedicated in his work... and try to bring in the consciousness of people... that the space age... is already here. We are very happy to appear on a... on a speakers platform... with him... at any time. We find him living... the kind of life... that he is trying... to tell others about. And a... a... he's a man that we just a... admire. Now a... a... if... I had not myself seen spacecraft... then maybe there would be doubt. But when I saw... when I saw... someone else verify these things... you see.

Long John Nebel : 0:54:59 Mr. Carr... a... if we can set aside the fact that you... a... feel that you're a scientist... and an inventor... and I am not denying that... I'm not in a position to judge frankly. But if we can set that side... set that aside for a moment... as the president... of a corporation... I think that you should also be... a good... shrewd... keen... business man. And... please don't think... that a... I'm implying that you're not... I do not know. But I would say this... that... listening to you... a... during the past couple of minutes... I would be... a little skeptical... of your... business ability. When you're telling me... this man is a fine man... a clean living man. He is conscious of Space and what it means and all. This sounds like a lot of nonsense... when it comes to... you know... down to business.

Otis T. Carr : 0:56:12 Well... I don't see anything nonsensical about it at all John. We're living in a rather strange age... believe me.

Long John Nebel : 0:56:21 Why do you say it's strange... why do you put that label on it Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:56:24 Well I can put... I can put it on here... because it's the first time... in recorded history... the age that we're living in... which is just like this one. When a balance is struck in nature... any movement or any action... always sets up a counterbalance. And man has found out how to totally destroy himself. This... a balance has been struck. We have now... stockpiled on this planet Earth... total destruction... so there would be no animals... vegetables... or insects... life left in a very few days... if it was ever let loose. Now... this make a little bit different... type of age... then other ages. This makes... a... a time... when man has to... start moving in other directions. And... some men have dedicated their selves to this. That's why... we did not join the military... with the OTC X-1... it is purely a space craft. Something to bring... a higher consciousness in the people's minds.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:35 Is it possible that the military didn't... join O.T.C.?

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:39 Well I don't... I wouldn't say that... we were invited.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:44 What do you mean by being invited... Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:57:46 We were invited... by the Air and Research and Development Command... and... we decided... to go on... our peaceful ways.

Long John Nebel : 0:58:01 I have in front of me... information bulletin number three... dated December 23, 1957. This is on the O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated letter head of Baltimore 18 Maryland. Carr's principles of free energy space flight accorded... highest scientific verification. And I'll read the first paragraph. Otis T. Carr President of O.T.C. Enterprises in Baltimore and inventor... of a manned space craft. Which he as oftered to build and deliver to the government without one penny of risk to the American tax... taxpayer. Publicly revealed the propulsion principle... of his spacecraft in the following statement. No I am not going to read the entire statement. But I would like to ask you this sir. Where would you get the money... to build this? Because if my memory... is correct... the last time we discussed this... I had a... a release... or prospect... if I guess it would be labeled... from O.T.C. Enterprises. Offering to build... the OTC Circular Foil Spacecraft... for twenty million dollars. And an additional one could be built at the same time... if somebody placed an order for two... the additional one would cost four million dollars. You may be a very wealthy man sir... your corporation may be... extremely wealthy... but are you in a position... to invest twenty million dollars... to build this... and to deliver it... to the government of the United States... without one penny of risk to the American taxpayer? Mr. Carr.

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:11 From government funds... yes... we have not asked for government funds. The problem of the money is not great at all John. When the Pioneer Rocket was fired a fews ago... a... and it was quite a... flight... about seventy some thousand miles up. It was just about on a... the North American continent... about a nineteen billion dollar pricetag behind it. That is the missile and guided missile... and research and all the refinements up to this point... run about nineteen billion. Now a billion dollars... is a thousand million. Now you take... nineteen thousand million... and compare this with twenty million. So we shouldn't have too much difficulty. This is a small drop in a might big bucket.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:04 Well maybe I didn't read this first. But maybe I haven't analyzed the first paragraph. Are you suggesting in this first paragraph to the reader... that you are willing to build this craft... without charging the government for it?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:23 Until after it was delivered and checked out. Then (?) pay for it.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:27 Well... then in other words... would you start to build it now Mr. Carr... and after it's completed... hope that the government would... be interested in it?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:38 Not at all. We'll invite them... a... to view our craft when it takes off. If they have interest... this would be wonderful. But it is a... truly a... a spacecraft... and not a military vehicle... in any sense of the word.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:53 Are the rockets military... (?) when they are trying to get to the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:57 We don't know. I'll... I'll tell you one thing. I think it's very foolish to shoot at something you haven't explored at. We got to get twenty rockets back.

Long John Nebel : 1:02:08 In other words... you think that a... that a... there's a possibility that people are living on the Moon? And they may... become a little irritated... because... you know... some of these... shooting rockets up.

Otis T. Carr : 1:02:18 A Japanese scientist said... that it would be quite a laugh... if we... exploded a hydrogen warhead... on the Moon. But it would be a much bigger laugh... if we got twenty hydrogen warheads back. Now if... a... Columbus had asked Isabella to... hock her... jewels and say... I want to build the world's biggest cannon so I can shoot around it... maybe this North American continent would not have been discovered. The way to explore... is to go there.

Ellery Lanier : 1:02:50 Mr. Carr... didn't you say earlier... when I asked you whether you were taking along... any defensive weapons... that you... didn't you say... that you didn't expect any dangerous... people up... at the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:01 No... but if I start shooting at them... it may be different.

Ellery Lanier : 1:03:05 Well... how are they going to know... that you don't have a... evil intentions when you arrive at the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:11 Maybe they are mind readers.

Ellery Lanier : 1:03:14 I mean you don't know this for sure.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:16 I don't know at all.

The force field here and the magnetic field that we're in and the gravity field which we set up makes us as comfortable inside our cabin as we are here in this room.
our force field will protect us to a great extent. This this craft glows. The electromagnetics ionized field around this craft in our atmosphere and right through the ionosphere will shine and glow like a well like a fluorescent light particularly at night. Now this field will disburse most all particles small meteorites much of the radiation and we will be protected.
We know this that there
is space travel already. This we know.
we started on the exploration of this development way back
in 1925 right here in
New York City. It took many years
to come up with the basic principle.
0:42:52 We are using electromotive force gravity electromagnetism and Space itself
as a catalyst.
0:43:21 What happens here is that we have twelve releases with every pulsating on and off current with every rotation of this craft. This when it accelerates up to a rather high rotational velocity it sets up a field which in a sense like a fan wave.
it sets up a field
which in a sense like a
fan wave
0:43:59 we have added here are mutually conducting capacitor plates. Which to our knowledge have not been used in this sense before by anybody. These plates which become charged in this field and release their charge release it into the entire outer shell of our craft. Thereby setting up this force field which makes it possible for
us not to worry about
a thermal barrier because we are practically travelling in our
own vacuum.
0:44:38 the circuit breaking rheostat regulators and all of
the standard electrical equipment. We have really unique control panel
which has for each electromagnet where the circuit is first made and where the power system begins we have one control for that. So that
our control panel here consists of a circle of twelve of these controls. Now bisecting this by
a horizonal and vertical line we can go in any direction by changing this field. As these magnets
go through this field by reducing them we go in this direction.
our control panel here consists
of a circle
0:45:46 when we reach the relative rotation of the Earth and this is strickly by diameter by the size of our craft in diameter rather than by mass and weight. When we reach this relative rotation we become airborn. Absolutly weightless as regards to the Earth. Now if we keep this as an equal we'll
just stand still when we accelerate we start
to move.
we
become
airborn
0:46:26 We're confident that by the time that we take off a little over a year from now that thousands of people
on this planet will be perfectly conscious
of the fact that
the electromagnet gravity electromotive force machine is a reality and that the space age is here.
We were on the program for approximately one hour on television live and we accepted telephone calls. As there was a certain amount of demonstration of our model and our flight plan. In this call and we should have in our records this man's name. He identified himself as a Ph.D physicist a man who has talked physics in the state of Oklahoma and who was
a qualified electronic engineer
he volunteered to be the third passenger on our flight which was quite heavy scientific evaluation.
tricky Question
Oklahoma City
largest television station
This sounds like
a lot of nonsense when it comes to you know
down to business.
we decided to go
on
our peaceful ways.
Which he as oftered to build and deliver to the government without one penny of risk to the American tax taxpayer.
Until after it was delivered and checked out.
you are willing to build this craft without charging the government for it?

Ellery Lanier : 1:03:17 It's a risk... in other words... this is a risk you are taking.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:20 Yes... that's right. We're going into unexploried regions...

Ellery Lanier : 1:03:24 Supposing the American government experimental Moon probe a... succeeds before your... your take-off time arrives. Would you... a... go ahead in any case?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:36 Oh yes... we just hope that they don't contaminate the area... that we'll be around.

Ellery Lanier : 1:03:41 Was that a snide remark or... or was that a technical remark?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:44 I don't know. Technical. chuckles... believe me... this is the way...

Long John Nebel : 1:03:52 Let me ask you another question... a... Mr. Carr. I'm under the impression that... you have no intention of building this craft... and then... delivering it to the United States government. And saying... fellows... if you want to buy it... it will cost you twenty millon... if not... a... forget the whole deal... it's not going to work out that way. But... you do intend to build one... so that you can go to the Moon with Wayne Aho... on the 7th day of December 1959.

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:21 And... and another passenger... another passenger... we just invited him... he is going with us.

Ellery Lanier : 1:04:28 Isn't Mr. Colton going along?

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:31 He'll be there in spirit... if not... otherwise. However... in these lectures... there was always a question and answer period... and one of the boys... a...

Long John Nebel : 1:04:43 I haven't even got a chance to get my question in... so you can't answer mine yet... could I... ask the question?

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:48 Yes indeed.

Long John Nebel : 1:04:49 The quesion is this... where do you intend to get twenty million dollars... to build it... so that... Major Aho and Otis T. Carr can go to the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:00 We're interested in introducing the space age... and there's thousands of people on this planet that are also interested in it. There has been talk... conversation and... a... valley who back and forth. We are doing something about it. From Iceland... from New Zealand... from Australia... from a... Berlin... Austria and even behind the iron curtain... has come well wishes... and bon voyage.

Long John Nebel : 1:05:28 Can you build... with well wishes? I mean can you go to the... to the supply house... and say... give me four hundred pounds of aluminum and I'll give you... four hundred well wishes?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:39 We will say this... that a... that when... your motive is right... and you can prove your principles to be sound... in this free enterprise system in America... God given... man has always be able to succeed. We have not worried... too much... about... the need... for money. The ideas... of how to raise it... this will be available... when we are ready for it.

Long John Nebel : 1:06:07 Aren't you ready now sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:06:08 We're working very hard.

Long John Nebel : 1:06:09 I mean... because if you're... how long will it take to build this thing?

Otis T. Carr : 1:06:13 Approximately three months... after we get our space hanger completed... a... it will take about three months... to build the craft... and about three months to check it out.

Ellery Lanier : 1:06:25 Now we're off to the Moon...

Long John Nebel : 1:06:26 I a...

Ellery Lanier : 1:06:28 Aren't you... I'd like to get two little technical questions in Mr. Carr. One is... a... I'll tell you the two of them... and then you can answer them both... both together. One is... where is the power... where does this... a... flying saucer... I... I'd prefer to use that... I know you don't like the term... but it is much simpler for me to say... flying saucer rather than... Circular Foil... craft a... Spacecraft. How is your flying saucer powered? What is the source of power... do you have to... do you have to buy fuel? And the second question is... how... what is the... how you (?) that you a... estimated will achieve?

Otis T. Carr : 1:07:08 Both good questions. The first one is... why we are in business... why the OTC X-1... will take-off... as we had scheduled. This is that... we have a central power package... the Utron Electrical Accumulator. And this is the real novelty of the beginning of the development of this whole system. It is... electromotive force... from within... stored the same manner in which... a storage battery... a... battery... stores it. The difference is... it is a piece of moving machinery... and a part of the... whole mechanism. Now a... you can a... consider... as storage type battery in your car. It is inanimate... it sits there... and electromotive force... is... conducted from it... and returned to it. Assume... that this battery was a piece of machinery... in motion in your car... and you begin to understand some of our principle. The first successful automobiles were electrical. And had the inventers... at this time... found out what we know now... the electric automobile would be... the greatest thing on Earth.

Ellery Lanier : 1:08:30 There are still some electric automobiles running around in New York City.

Otis T. Carr : 1:08:35 But there... I'll guarentee you... that their battery... is not a machine in motion as a part of it.

Ellery Lanier : 1:08:43 Well... a... do you have to... get a... electricity stored up into the (?) in the craft?

Otis T. Carr : 1:08:48 Yes indeed. We start out... by storing this electricity electrochemically the same... through... electrolyte action. The same as any other... dry cell or any wet cell.

Ellery Lanier : 1:09:00 Is that what you did with the model that disappeared?

Otis T. Carr : 1:09:03 Absolutely.

Ellery Lanier : 1:09:04 uh huh.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:05 Mr. Carr... supposing... Henry Ford... came to you... and he said... Otis... I know that you have the money... and I'd like... I'd like to have you invest it in a new idea that I have. It's a... it's a craft to... go to the planet Venus. And you find that he has with him... a gentleman who claims... that he is receiving... telepathic communication during the time that Henry Ford is in your office. And the man also tell you... Mr. Carr... wonder if you'd be kind enough to wait a moment. I want to check before you invest your money on the landing possibilities... I'm going to astroly project myself to Venus. And he sits in the chair in your office... and it appears... that... he is in a trance state. And about ten minutes later... he's wide awake... out of the trance state... and he tells you... that everything will be all right... to land there. Now Henry Ford... at this point... says to you... Otis... do you want to put the fifty thousand dollars into the deal. In other words... you have confidence in Henry Ford... I think we all do. But wouldn't you... sort of question... Mr. Ford?

Otis T. Carr : 1:10:40 Well... I'll assure your associates... there aren't any tactics like this... being used at O.T.C. Enterprises.

Long John Nebel : 1:10:47 Well... isn't it true sir... and I... I have no reason to... in oher words... I don't want to knock anybody... I don't want to be unkind to anybody... but... a... do you honestly think that the mystic barber have been to the Moon?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:03 We don't know. Never met him...

Long John Nebel : 1:11:05 Oh yes you did sir... please.

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:07 (?)

Long John Nebel : 1:11:07 You talked with the mystic barber.

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:08 Did I?

Long John Nebel : 1:11:09 Yes... you were in a rather lengthy conversation... maybe you know him as Andy Sinatra. This is the man who has a band on his head... and claims that he's receiving communications from other planets... you met him at a convention... we both (?) at the convention.

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:22 I met several hundred people there John... and I don't remember him at all.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:29 You were unimpressed sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:31 I don't say this... I just do not remember him.

Ellery Lanier : 1:11:37 Well... I don't know. I... that brings the... me back to the question... back to the question I asked you a little earlier Mr. Carr. This man who uses... a... who goes by astroprojection to the Moon. I don't know how long it takes him to get to the Moon... by that technique. Or whether it... takes him five minutes or five hours... about five hours or what. But what I was asking you before was... what is the... fastest that... your flying saucer can go?

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:02 Between here and the Moon... on this orbit... on this planned flight... our last two hours of flight will be... seventy-six thousand miles per hour... until... we get on the other... a... start to go around the Moon. And then... believe it or not... our velocity... will be comparable to the total distance covered. Which was approximately... five hundred thousand miles per hour.

Ellery Lanier : 1:12:28 Five hundred thousand miles per hour.

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:30 That's right... for a very short period of time.

Ellery Lanier : 1:12:34 What... do you have a theoretical limit as to the highest speed... that this... this flying saucer can achieve?

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:39 No. I... the... the... the highest velocities... are something that will be a matter of exploration. We feel... in Space... there is a possibility... to exceed the... even the velocities at the... are the standards of electromagnet... electromagnet wave now. The... so called velocity of light.

Ellery Lanier : 1:31:01 Do you think you will be able to go faster than light?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:04 Absolutely... I think so. Because a... light as we... not faster than light... but... light as we have evaluated the speed for the past few years.

Ellery Lanier : 1:13:14 Well... this would mean then... a... Mr. Carr... this is... this is... news... I mean... this is important news... that you are announcing at this moment.

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:20 Right.

Ellery Lanier : 1:13:21 I don't know if... the public is aware of the importance of what you have just stated. But this would mean that... we would be able to visit... not only the planets... but the stars.

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:32 Other galaxies. This is the most interesting part... we certaninly hope that a... in... this moment of transition that we go through between here and the Moon... that we will... have gained... sufficient new stability... that on our return... that we can plan... flights to other planets... and from other planets... to other galaxies... in our life time.

Ellery Lanier : 1:13:55 Won't this mean... that a... you will have to have rather large ships... which will have large atmospheres... inside... because... I mean this... I... I can't... even at... a... double the speed of light... it's still going to take you quite a... a... long time... to get to the stars.

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:15 Distances are relative... relative to resistances. Now when we... remove resistance... a... distance then... is something... that we don't know very much about. There is a possibility... that... after all... man invented time... and there is a possiblity that... I... we have outmoded our invention. The velocities are relative... to... the attraction. When a... and.. we have stated that Space itself is a catalyst. And the forces that we use... are gravity and electromagnetism... and that they... are interchangeable.

Ellery Lanier : 1:14:59 Very beautifully put.

Otis T. Carr : 1:15:00 Now... we can take... a... a... rubber band... and it is a rubber band... and it is two inches long... and we can stretch it... four feet... it is still a rubber band. But... it's... it's condition and space has changed. Now... why... by pressure... and by... energy. Now... on our first program... with Long John... and I believe that even... that you visited here... on this first program. There was considerable discussion about... me questioning... our accepted constant... of the velocity of light. We have felt for a long time... and our experiments... has lead us to believe... that this is a man made evaluation... and the inventions that we have built... are build around our evaluations... rather than be... the total truth. We noticed now... released about... a... two or three weeks ago... that the Nobel Prize... is considered being given to some (?) who have proven... that even in our own atmosphere... there is a higher velocity... than the velocity of light.

Ellery Lanier : 1:16:10 That is very interesting... now a... that you bring up that question Mr. Carr... do you think... that... the Russians are working on a device similar to yours?

Otis T. Carr : 1:16:21 If they are interested in Space travel... they... they should be working on it. We have not tried to conceal these bacic principles. Man... a... doesn't own a... the law of displacement... anybody can build boats. Here is the basic law... another unit of law... another step in the ladder of our consciousness. I don't want to control it... and therefore we have not tried... to conceal the relased information... that tells exactly how our craft works. Therefore the Russians must know. Now if... they have anybody over there with any curiosity... they can build one real fast.

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:05 Is it conceiveable that they have already built a flying saucer similar to yours?

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:10 Very possible... I don't see why one hasn't been built here... on the North American Continent.

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:15 Well... is it even conceiveable that the Russians may be on the Moon right now... and not be telling us about it?

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:23 Well... we don't hear much... about their rockets anymore. We heard an awful lot about rockets. But now you never hear... one release about a rocket... from Russia.

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:38 Well... what does this mean... I mean...

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:39 It means...

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:39 ... I mean... you're giving us a puzzle to think of...

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:41 Well... frankly I do not think that they have stopped... when they already... showed the initiative.

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:47 Well what do you... what are you meaning... I mean... you're... you're giving us a puzzle... what does this... what are you implying?

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:53 I do not know.

Ellery Lanier : 1:17:54 What are the possibilities?

Otis T. Carr : 1:17:55 The possibilities are... that they... have spacecraft.

Ellery Lanier : 1:18:00 Out... at the Moon... for example?

Otis T. Carr : 1:18:02 Could be.

Long John Nebel : 1:18:04 Do you think that a... Mr. Carr... do you honestly think... that people are living on the Moon? I'm not talking about people from this planet... that may... a... have arrived there?

Otis T. Carr : 1:18:12 I would say... that it would make a wonderful space platform for somebody coming from another planet. Now if I lived on Mars... and wanted to do a little bit of exploring of the Earth... I don't know of a better place to hide myself... than on the Moon.

Long John Nebel : 1:18:25 To hide?

Otis T. Carr : 1:18:27 Yes... if I wanted to... get on the other side... you can feel... not a... let too much be known. And a... knowing that it couldn't be observed... from a... our planet. That's a good a... if you can get from Mars to the Moon... which is certainly easy with our craft... we except to make it... at a velocity of about a... a million miles and hour... between the Moon and Mars... when we make the second trip. Once they have got there... I don't see why they wouldn't use the Moon as a station.

Long John Nebel : 1:19:01 I think a... you told us one time Mr. Carr... or possibly Mr. Colton told us this... that a... it would take... you... five and a half hours to get... a... yes... five and a half hours to the Moon. The return trip would be... approximately five hours. Do you still think (?)?

Otis T. Carr : 1:19:21 No... it runs approximately the same both ways... about five hours each way... as we see it.

Long John Nebel : 1:19:27 Give or take a few minutes.

Otis T. Carr : 1:19:28 Yeah. And a... incidentally though John... we'll be out seven days. According to Earth time.

Long John Nebel : 1:19:34 You'll be out... you mean... in the craft in Space?

Otis T. Carr : 1:19:39 That's right...

Long John Nebel : 1:19:39 I... I... I... don't quite follow this. If it takes five hours... what are you doing... whether you... is this sort of a... ?

Otis T. Carr : 1:19:44 Well... during this time... we'll only eat one meal. Because we'll only have the sensation of being away ten hours... but I'll really be away seven days... and this time... we (?) go down a whole lot. A wonderful diet.

Long John Nebel : 1:19:58 If you're away seven days... you will only... a... require one meal?

Otis T. Carr : 1:20:04 Apparently... according to my calculations... this will be correct.

Long John Nebel : 1:20:08 Will you have to have any vitamins?

Otis T. Carr : 1:20:12 Maybe... if we have a...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:13 I'm not trying to... I'm not trying to get into a commerical.

Otis T. Carr : 1:20:15 laughs...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:16 But it is an ideal time... and so I will...

Long John Nebel : 1:20:22 Lets get back to this trip. I wonder... well I... I imagine that certainly you... you a... have a... thought about this a... for... possibly many days. Can you discribe to us... Mr. Carr... what the take-off will be like? Will there be a launching pad? Or anything like that? When you actually get into space... what will it feel like? I wonder if you can describe that to us?

Otis T. Carr : 1:20:55 At... Space Maryland... is where we will build our research hanger. This craft will be assembled inside this dome building. Which a... a... looks somewhat like a... just half and egg. There will be a hydraulic lift... in the celler of this... which will be... a... which will be... the same diameter as our craft. This hydraulic lift will be used to bring the craft up to the ground level. Where we will... here... test out... our relative rotation principle... our magnetic field princples... inside this steel building. Then we will slowly drop the lift... and we will have our craft levitate right... inside this building. And go through the test experiences of what we expect to find in Space. 1:21:59 It as you see by the model... has a... landing gear that makes it possible to be... the a... moved on the ground... without the power principle in full operation and... we will open this a... at the ground level... and bring this craft out... on the landing strip that is a... just a small area... we do not need any a... take-off a... a... distance area... because we go straight up. When we activate our craft... it's a... forty-five feet in diameter... and its RPM... that is revolutions per minute... will be... approximately... five hundred and eighty. This outer shell... as you see the model. 1:22:49 Now this doesn't sound like very many RPMs... but consider a merry-go-round... going at five hundred and eighty... turns a minute... and it will give you... some idea of the great amount of energy that is being expended here... and manifesting. And as you'll notice by the model... our cabin is stationary... all of this is whirling around us. The force field... then builds up. We are then protected... we have our own little world... our own little planet. And we will start to rise... gently... at first... and then we will accelerate. But regardless of what the velocity we will go... we will still be just as comfortable... as we are sitting in this room. 1:23:34 Even though we are going straight up. We have reached a height that's above... commerical craft... or above any possibility to cause consternation in forward flight. We will start in a forward velocity... around the planet. At five thousand miles per hour... in our atmosphere. The... there isn't very much stress on the metals. We only have one center axes in this craft... as our model plans show. And which can be proven by demonstration. When the force field is filled up... this... encloses us inside here. All the metals and everything... just like a shell enclosed an egg. We are protected. We then... can go at velocities higher than five thousand. 1:24:35 But I've considering what I know about materials... and stressing and strains on them. Assuming that we will have... going to have more than we know we will have. And I've made a conservative estimate... estimate of five thousand. Now my flight plan will be patterned for me and that is exactly the first a... orbit around the Earth... that is what the velocity will be. We don't expect... to have much sensation except of one of a... considerable exhilaration with success is here... and we are on our way. Observation... our knowledge of speed will purely be by... optical observation... of things that we see. So when we start getting outside the a... atmosphere of the Earth... a... all we will see is this planet... getting a little bit smaller. 1:25:32 And this is going to be a beautiful sight. And as we go farther... we're going to see... that his magnificent planet of ours is a jewel... it sparkles. It has... the brilliance of rubies and diamonds and emeralds. And why man tries to contaminate it... we'll never know. We also expect... to see it turning... and this is worth the trip... we expect to see its slow revolving. And we expect to... feel like... we're really what God intended us to be... one of his true creatures. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Long John Nebel : 1:26:14 Thank you Mr. Cook... pardon me... Mr. Carr. Sounded like a cookie cooker roll from all the business... ah.

some 1:26:19 laughter

Ellery Lanier : 1:26:21 Mr. Carr... have you gotten clearance from CAV?

Otis T. Carr : 1:26:26 We were asked this question at one of our lectures. We found out that there is no law of the land... that can keep you from going straight up on your own property.

Ellery Lanier : 1:26:36 Can you fly.

Long John Nebel : 1:26:37 He said... boy... that was a very good... that was a very very good answer. Exciting.

Ellery Lanier : 1:26:46 I mean... that's... that's it I mean a... I mean even in a... in a... an elevator operator doesn't need CAV clearance.

some 1:26:53 laughter

Long John Nebel : 1:26:57 We just talking to Mr. Cook (?)(?)... and he said to me... John... we have orders for over forty thousand sets. And our first print order... a... we ordered just ten thousand... and a... the orders started to flow in... that a... we stopped that order... we sent around... and we're having them... produced through a different printing process. So that we can a... be able to handle an anticipated a... seventy five thousand... which they imagine that many people will be interested in the plan. Ellery... I think you had a question for Mr. Colton.

Ellery Lanier : 1:27:35 Yes I do. Mr. Colton... a... a little earlier Mr. Carr was referring to the entire subject of other magnetic fields. And what I wanted to ask you was... in these other magentic fields... does... does the magnet that we normally use in this magnet field... that we happen to live (?)(?)(?)(?) so that (?) response in these other magnet fields? Are you equipped to answer that?

Norman Colton : 1:28:07 Probably not... but I'll do my best with it. Words like... magnetism and gravity and light and a lot of others we have to remember... are our own inventions. The meaning for them... are only expressed in nature itself and are always relative to the... natural movements of the... physical material bodies and energies in nature. So that actually... while we've have talked a great deal about them... about these forces... and we have established certain constants... and so called laws... a... we have to remember... as Mr. Carr says so often... that we have the a... frailty of being the observer... and we ourselves are in motion... in this motion field... so we aren't at all sure... of the constancy of any of our observations... because all of our... measuring devices and yardsticks are mearly extentions of our own senses.

Ellery Lanier : 1:29:23 Well I... I gather that you... you did say that this was not within your domain... this answer... as to what happens in other magnetic fields.

Norman Colton : 1:29:31 I don't think it is... no.

Ellery Lanier : 1:00:00 Yes... but then I would ask you... a very personal question Mr. Colton... how come you are not part of the crew of this first flying saucer to take-off for the Moon?

Norman Colton : 1:29:43 Well... because... a large part of the... navigation and... observation... communication... guidance and control will be from the planet Earth. There will be a system of... geometric triangulation... by the use of familiar devices such as telescopes... cameras... radar and radio beams and so forth. And my job... in connection with the shakedown... and the first actual manned orbit of the Moon... will be... at the Space Research Institute... in the electronics building... a... more or less of a supervisory capacity to see that... everybody... is doing the right job... at the right time... with the... navigational and guidance instruments... that will be... a... part of the... a... flight guidance system.

Ellery Lanier : 1:30:39 Well... then you are part of the... would be part of the... ground crew in effect... and the (?).

Norman Colton : 1:30:43 This is true... that's right.

Ellery Lanier : 1:30:46 And a... are you using similar systems of tracking... today that are being used to... follow the satellites of the tracking... ?

Norman Colton : 1:30:52 Fortunately yes... a... all of the systems that will be needed... as guidance and control... for our shake down... and... actual man orbit... are... of conventional design... and are commercially available.

Ellery Lanier : 1:31:09 Now... Mr. a... Norton. I'm sorry... Colton... your first name is Norton. And a... forgive me. I keep thinking of you as somebody...

Norman Colton : 1:31:19 That's quite all right.

Ellery Lanier : 1:31:20 Norman Evans Colton... Director of Sales Engineering of O.T.C. Now we've got it straight. So Mr. Colton... a... a little earlier Mr. Carr referred to the a... to a... possibility of having received... some communication from... peoples from other planets. Do you have any... information about that?

Norman Colton : 1:31:44 I myself have not received such information... but
a... I've had so many... revelations... of all kinds... in the past few year that... I certainly wouldn't doubt such a statement... and a... I especially wouldn't... doubt it if a... Mr. Carr... made it... flatly as a statement of fact. Because he has certainly a... shown many qualifications... and... abilities in developing these... energy and propulsion systems... which are... far beyond what we consider as the... conventional. And a... also noticed that... a... one of the major... best known of the... so called top three... electrical manufacturing and engineering companies of this country... has... announced... that is has established officially... a department for developing communication by brain wave... or telepathy or whatever term you choose to give it.

how long will it take to build this thing?
it will take about three months to build the craft and about three months
to check it out.
we have a central power package the Utron Electrical Accumulator. And this is the real novelty of the beginning of the development of this whole system. It is electromotive force from within stored the same manner in which a storage battery stores it. The difference is it is a piece of moving machinery and a part of the whole mechanism.
Distances are relative to resistances. Now when
we remove resistance
distance then is something that we don't know very much about.
we have stated that Space itself is a catalyst. And
the forces that we
use are gravity and electromagnetism and that
they are interchangeable.
We have not tried to conceal these bacic principles. Man doesn't own the law of displacement anybody
can build boats. Here is the basic law another
unit of law another step
in the ladder of our consciousness. I don't want to control it and therefore
we have not tried to conceal the relased information that tells exactly how our craft works.
We have not
tried to conceal
these basic principles.
we'll be out seven days. According to Earth time.
When we activate our craft it's forty-five feet in diameter and its RPM that is revolutions per minute will be approximately five hundred and eighty. This outer shell as you see the model.

Ellery Lanier : 1:32:53 And now that you've brought up that subject... I... I just want to cut in for one moment... and then please continue. I want to know... are... are you equipping your a... flying saucer... with cybernetics devices?

Norman Colton : 1:33:05 As I understand the meaning of the term... there will be many... cybernetic devices used on the craft... and in the electronics building at Space Maryland.

Ellery Lanier : 1:33:15 May I a... I'd like to let our...

Norman Colton : 1:33:16 (?) computers and some (?) in the car (?) and other such devices.

Ellery Lanier : 1:33:20 I wanted to recommend a... a... a... fellow pilot or a co-pilot for your craft... a... Mr. Isquith is... quite competent... and I think he'll do very well when you get on the other... side of the Moon. But a... to get back to the a... my line of questioning. We... we got lost in the other magnetic field... and then we... we've gotten back into these controls.

Norman Colton : 1:33:45 I doubt... Ellery... if we'll ever get lost... in a magnetic field... as long as we have good instruments... because one thing we do know...

Ellery Lanier : 1:33:53 Well... you are equipped to answer some...

Norman Colton : 1:33:55 laughs...

Ellery Lanier : 1:33:55 ... (?) ... and I'm glad to hear that.

Norman Colton : 1:33:57 We have learned that the a... energy activities... of the magnetic fields... or whatever you call them by some other name... gravity fields or electric fields... of this Universe. One thing we've learned... is that their behavior is constant... in relation to the... motion of the... bodies... of the planets and Moons... in the...

Ellery Lanier : 1:34:21 (?)(?)... do you state this as a fact?

Norman Colton : 1:34:25 I state it an a conclusion... from... all of my observation... of the a... natural philosophers... since... they began to write for our history.

Ellery Lanier : 1:34:42 Mr. Colton... were you present... when the modelled flying saucer... and again I as your... your forgiveness... I prefer to use the term... flying saucer. Your other phase... is a little too tongue-twisiting for me. You'll just have to indulge me and let me use that term.

Norman Colton : 1:35:00 Well... its a...

Ellery Lanier : 1:35:01 If you object I will self...

Norman Colton : 1:35:01 ... good idea... I know...

Ellery Lanier : 1:35:02 ... but I prefer to use the term... flying saucer.

Norman Colton : 1:35:04 Not at all. Every time you use the term... flying saucer... I use the term... electrogravitional spacecraft... or... Circular Foil Craft... and then by... connotation the correct technical term will eventually replace the... better known... (?).

Ellery Lanier : 1:35:18 (?)(?)(?)... were you present... when the experimental flight... that Mr. Carr referred to... took place?

Norman Colton : 1:35:28 No I wasn't.

Ellery Lanier : 1:35:29 (?)

Norman Colton : 1:35:30 These experiments were conducted... and Mr. Carr was satisfied... with the... successful accomplishment of... this type of flight... sometime before I met him... about two years ago.

Ellery Lanier : 1:35:43 I see... Mr. Carr... did this model that you had... model flying saucer... development... (?)(?) around the planet... went off into the atmosphere?

Otis T. Carr : 1:35:52 No it didn't. Because it did not have enough of external metals... do to... however... in laboratory experiments... we further boil this out... and know it to be correct.

Ellery Lanier : 1:36:03 About the gloring (?) that...

Otis T. Carr : 1:36:05 That's right.

Ellery Lanier : 1:36:06 ... accompanies the craft.

Otis T. Carr : 1:36:07 Absolutely. We have seen it. And a... in reference to Mr. Colton's a... he is a man of high integrity... believe me. We have been associated with him a couple of years and we know. He has satisfied... when an independent firm... technically qualified to do so. Put in writing... and verified our principle as being sound and correct.

Long John Nebel : 1:36:31 I have a... couple of telegrams here. As you know... Mr. Carr and Mr. Colton... you're... familiar with the fact... that when we receive telegrams we read them... some of them are... a little rough.

Norman Colton : 1:36:46 Well we take the rough with the smooth.

Long John Nebel : 1:36:47 Good. Here is one here. This came in by telephone. I don't know... I wish that people... when they listen... that they would be kind enough to... put the word... what... in the address. This gentleman who sent the telegram... a... evidently just sent it to... 1440 Broadway... WOR. So the Western Union office downstairs... they were kind enough... call this into us. This man... by the name of... Don Dunn... oh yes. Mr. Dunn is... with one of the TV journals. This is a question for you Mr. Carr. When on program last June... you promised... a twenty foot flying model... would land on White House lawn... within three months. That was six months ago. What happened? Don Donn

Otis T. Carr : 1:37:42 I don't recall... stating a twenty foot model. I said... I do recall saying that... we could build a forty five foot craft... in three months... if we had all facilities available. We can still do it... if we had all of the facilities... this includes a considerable amount of man power and cooperation. There have been other delays... which have been natural and unavoidable. But we are moving fast... and that's why... we have set this date for departure... which is now just a little... more than a year away. It can be met. It is not and easy date for us. We could relax... show the world these principles... which will be shown... long before we take-off... and a... have a good time. But a... we have found in... by past experience... that when we have set... a specific time... declared it... and work towards it... often times we succeed. We made no specific statement of date... on when we would deliver... a craft to the White House... House lawn. Had we made this date... and had they allowed us to do so... I think we would have met it.

......................................................................................................................................

first third ends : 1:39:06

when an independent firm technically qualified to do so. Put in writing and verified our principle as being sound and correct.
When you're ready for the next part... click here
last update
9 December 2011 ~ 00:07 EST
Comments Welcome... via email
Transcribed by : Curtis Cooperman
Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~.Listen 15 Nov 1958 first third
.Margaret Storm~~.~loved Tesla
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla