Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 19 April 1958 ~ first half

Recorded
WOR Radio
New York ~ 1958
Long John Nebel Show
Nikola Tesla
Otis T. Carr
Nikola Tesla taught Otis T. Carr... how to capture energy for free.
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.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~.Listen 19 April 1958 first half
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.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla
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Otis T. Carr
Norman Colton
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Ben Isquith
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Mel Shironey
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Otis T. Carr

19 April 1958
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Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 19 April 1958 ~ first half

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Long John Nebel : 0:00:01 According to the schedule here... the delivered price payable in full on delivery... with no prior commitment required... and including all tooling... and other overhead is... twenty million dollars. Additional identical units are on same schedule for four million dollars each. That's a lot of money. My name is Long John... we call this... The Party Line. We're around from midnight to five-thirty... six mornings during the week. Monday mornings we get started about one... we continue through to 5:30 that means we're around for thirty-seven and a half hours a week. Now I imagine that you're wondering what I am talking about for twenty million dollars. Well I've had a few sponsors... we've sold a few things. But I don't have O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland as sponsors. But they do have something to sell. Mainly... a circular foil spacecraft that is available for... twenty million dollars. 0:01:09 We've talked about flying saucers on the program many times. And of course we've talked with people... who claim that they have been to other planets such as Venus... Mars. We've even had a man on the program... that claims that he was on the Moon. During ground breaking ceremonies the day that they started to drill the hole... you know from the dark side to the light side of the Moon. We've had a lot of the... well shall we say... interesting off beat people. But tonight... it appears to me that we have two very very solid citizens... who represent O.T.C Enterprises. And according to all the brochures all the booklets everything that we have in front of us and believe me we have a stack of material in front of us... plus miniature working models. 0:02:00 Well with all of this material... I am let to believe... that evidentially that these men believe that there is something to flying saucers. And the men that I am referring to... Otis T. Carr... President and Norman Evens Colton... Director of Sales Engineering. These gentlemen are associated with O.T.C. Enterprises. Now we'll be talking with them tonight about the possibility of making a craft... that can go to Venus... that can go to the Moon... that can go to Mars. The cost... twenty million dollars. And after we have the first one... well the rest of them won't cost too much... they'll be about four million dollars each. We have with us the morning... Ben Isquith the cyberistrican and... Mel Shironey advertizing executive. And we'll be doing a lot of taking this morning with a lot of people... and I hope that you might call some of your friends and neighbors and tell them. 0:02:59 That... if they're interested in flying saucers... this is one night... that they should be with us. Mr. Carr some time ago... one of our listeners sent me a brochure... that was published by O.T.C. Enterprises. It's a very beautiful brochure... it's certainly a very inspiring one... and when I read this offer... about a... spacecraft... that would be make available for twenty million dollars... I nearly flipped... and I mentioned it on the air... and evidently somebody contacted your... Director of Sales Engineering... Mr. Colton and he contacted us and that's why you're here this morning. Before we talk about the particular spacecraft that you intend to manufacture... I would like to ask you a couple of questions. One... do you believe... in the possibility of flying saucers... coming to this planet... the planet Earth from other planets?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:01 We believe that there are unidentified electrified objects in the air. We have seen three... on three separate occasions.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:11 When you said you've seen three Mr. Carr... a... did you see them in the air?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:16 In the air.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:16 ... were they hovering above a particular... a...?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:18 First (?) they were going at great velocity and they were definitely electrified... because we have been working on the same principle for many years... and we recognize... what we saw.

Long John Nebel : 0:04:29 Well... when you say electrified... a... what other type of a... if we may use the... the word saucers... this morning because most of our listeners understand that... what other type of saucers could there be... other than electrified... would they be gas driven or something sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:44 There could be... if a... we follow... a... principles now known... within our atmosphere. There are many... a... manners in which... a circular craft could be used. Such as the helo principal and a... (?) on the... areas of the a... close to the a... foil... the leading edge. But in the instance of those... which... the three different ones... which we saw in 1951 and '52... were definitely electrical... and they were... a... very close to what we had already designed.

Long John Nebel : 0:05:25 I think you... you said the... Heller system?

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:27 That's right. Well... any.. any system of a... circular rotation... that a... can use a motive power... a... such as jet propulsion would... a... make an airborne craft.

Mel Shironey : 0:05:45 In what way... is your invention different... from the... unidentified flying objects... which you... have seen?

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:54 Well... a... we do not... a... naturally not having been able to examine... the object we saw... due to the great velocity. We can't say with certainty that they are... similar to ours... but the principle we feel is the same. Our... our design... utilizes... gravity... electromagnetism... and electromotive force... in a relative field... to get its functional operation.

Mel Shironey : 0:06:27 I haven't understood a single word... of your last sentence. Without getting... excuse me... without getting at all technical... could you... sort of make it a little bit easier?

Otis T. Carr : 0:06:39 We will a... use a... this statement that we used... an electrified center. It's a center power core. Now this is what we call... an accumulator. In a vernacular sense... it is a battery. It is a storage cell... an accumulation of storage cells... which provide... electromotive force in the same manner... that any known battery... produces an electromotive force.

Mel Shironey : 0:07:11 Is that what you're holding in your hand now?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:12 That's right. This is what we are holding now.

Mel Shironey : 0:07:14 Could you describe it to the listening audience.

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:16 This is... a... dimensional product. It was designed with the dimensions of Space itself in-mind. And that we say... that it's truly... the geometric form of Space. Because it is... completely round... and completely square. Now a... in... in this surfaces are all round... but when we... show it this way... the surfaces... are square. It has been proven in scientific laboratory... that the very smallest unit of matter... ever photographed under an electron microscope... are square in shape. This has only been found out within the past couple of months. We have known it for years... and have applied this principle into an electrified system. This is the center power core of our Space vehicle. Now what makes this different... and unique and novel... from a battery... is the fact that... this is a piece of moving machinery... it rotates. Our average storage battery is an inanimate object set in an inertial spot and then the electromotive force is conducted by wires from this battery to animate some object.

Mel Shironey : 0:08:40 Well... let me... let me interrupt a moment... I'll... I'll try to... describe it further. Could you hand that to me please.

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:46 Yes please.

Mel Shironey : 0:08:47 Well it... looks like... two ice cream cones... put together... at the... scoop end... but it... the angle is a lot... wider than that of the ice cream cone. There are... a series of ridges... they look like... a... places for gears to fit in. Is that correct?

Otis T. Carr : 0:09:12 No... those are... in a sense... turbine principles. They're reactor channels. And in... where there is atmosphere... a flow of air there... aids in rotation.

Mel Shironey : 0:09:24 Well... then... is this one of the components... of the drive... this is the battery?

Otis T. Carr : 0:09:29 This is the central power core.

Mel Shironey : 0:09:31 This generates electricity?

Otis T. Carr : 0:09:33 This is right. This is... this is a storage cell for electrical energy. In operation... it... generates electricity at the same time it puts out electromotive force. This is the central power system... for our spacecraft.

Mel Shironey : 0:09:50 I just noticed that it opened up.... and a... it appears to be... hollowed out on the inside...

Otis T. Carr : 0:09:59 That is right.

Mel Shironey : 0:09:59 ... much... I would say... well it... it's circular... the inside... when the two parts are put... one on top of the other... and they put in with... two pegs. The... cavity inside is circular.

Otis T. Carr : 0:10:14 It is a sphere.

Mel Shironey : 0:10:14 Is there any... purpose for that?

Otis T. Carr : 0:10:17 It is a sphere... yes. And a... each unit is a hemisphere. We call the... center of this... this largest dimension... the equator. And of course... it expands... a... contracts and expands to a point on each side. It's a union of two (?presto?) conical sections... that is what it is. Two right angle sections. And we say... that it is the dimensions of Space... and we have shown how... this comes about.

Mel Shironey : 0:10:50 I'll leave the more technical aspects for Ben whose background... would fit in... much better to ask these questions.

Ben Isquith : 0:10:57 Be good to me.

Mel Shironey : 0:11:00 I'm always good to you Ben. There is... I do see... appearing in a Utica New York newspaper dated... Tuesday morning October 29th 1957... an AP dispatch... a lengthy one. And... there is one paragraph that says... that you... sent copies... of your brochure... outlining... the system of propulsion that you have developed to... President Eisenhower and members of the Cabinet... and the Atomic Energy Commission. Have you received an answer from them?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:37 There was recognition of receiving the material.

Mel Shironey : 0:11:40 Beyond that... did a... they give any... value judgement on what you had to contribute?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:46 No... we have not received any value judgements.

Mel Shironey : 0:11:48 Don't you think that's a little odd?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:52 Yes... I do.

Mel Shironey : 0:11:54 Is there any way that you can explain it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:57 I... have my own... ideas about this. Of course a... no way to substantiate such ideas. To... give my own personal opinion... we have a truly... a new... a Space vehicle that is... a... not expendable. It does not a... burn up its energy in a few seconds... it a... carries the energy with it... and it is... can leave the Earth's atmosphere and return man... it also can be used within the atmosphere. And it a... could make a trip from... very easily as... other... aerial a... transportation systems... from here to Baltimore or... from here to the Moon... and return. Now it is inexpensive... it certainly doesn't cost as much as the systems of one expendable rocket. The tooling... is... much less expensive and whether or not... our offer's... enter into an economic picture that is... not a... feasible at this time... we don't know. This is... one of our opinions of an answer.

Long John Nebel : 0:13:19 Well let me interrupt for just a moment to talk about one of our sponsors. Then we'll be back with Otis T. Carr and Norman Evens Colton... of O.T.C. Enterprises. And we're talking about a spacecraft... that they... are ready to produce for twenty million dollars. In case you have that type of money please call us immediately... and we'll call come over... I'll come over too... to your house.

Mel Shironey : 0:13:41 ... pop... I would even think... that... The Party Line... gets the opportunity... on special occasions at least... to present... visual experiences of this order.

Long John Nebel : 0:13:52 Well I'll tell you one thing... I'm absolutely amazed... I know that when I arrived here... about... a... eleven o'clock tonight... I saw a tremendous amount of luggage and a lot of crates and things... out in the hallway here... and I didn't know what happened... I thought maybe the (?) father sold the station and you know run me out of town. laughter. And a... when I met the... two gentleman... Mr. Carr and Mr. Colton... and they said that this was their equipment... I had no idea of what they had in mind. And a... it's a... very impressive and I also share... a... your thoughts today about this now. 0:14:27 It is rather unfortunate that a... we're not in a position to have picture radio tonight... so they could see... what's happening. But... but I... I think that a... a... possibly a... maybe our good friends at a... Space Magazine... a... will... a... be interested in doing something on this with some pictures with... Ray Palmer's Flying Saucer Magazine... or maybe our good friend Herb Bailey with Argosy may be interested in doing a story with a number of pictures... I think this is a... real story. And I think... what we're doing... we're passing up too much of this story by... you know... talking between ourselves and saying what a great amount of equipment they have. I think we should get back and talk with a... Mr. Carr and Mr. Colton. Ben... a... you just don't seem to be in a... in a... happy mood.

Ben Isquith : 0:15:15 (?)

Long John Nebel : 0:17:02 I know... revolution... would you care to get in this. I think you have a couple of questions.

Ben Isquith : 0:15:21 Mister... Mr. Carr. I was... wondering... I've been glancing at the a... literature that you provided us with. And I've been going over it. And the mathematical formula... that crops up here that... intrigues me. It's minus zero... divided by plus zero... equals zero. Now... the first time I ever saw a minus zero... used in a mathematical equation... was in the work of... Pierre Qualley (sp). Who was the first... mathematician ever to bring forth the idea of a minus zero. Which was... laughed at by... most orthodox mathematicians. It also intrigue me further because the a... the concept of minus zero is used in computers... but used in a much different way. I... I wonder if you could tell me more about it... and exactly how you stumbled upon this idea.

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:17 This equation is brought about by the shape of our Utron electrical accumulator.

Ben Isquith : 0:16:25 What... what is that again... Utron?

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:27 Utron Electrical Accumulator. This is the name we give for the central power core system of our spacecraft. It is dimensional as we have said. And a... in our operation... of working models and in check-out of experiments... we had to find the formula... that fit... the reasons for the actions and the reactions that we were getting. So... a... exploring nature... and studying somewhat of the inspirational work of the great Dr. Albert Einstein... on relativity... we came upon this formula... of linear correlation. And when we study... linear correlation... in geometric form... we have to have a starting point... and this is... in reality a point. And it... from there... it expands in through the cross... and through the circle. And the... the mathematics... the only way we can express it... is in the symbolism of... zero X... or 0x and this formula brings us to that. We claim that this is the true... a... Unified Field Theory... in physical practice.

Ben Isquith : 0:17:51 Well... the a... the thing I wonder about again... I mean the first time I ever came across the concept of minus zero was in looking over volume 4... of Pierre Qualley (sp) work. Here to before... I never saw it. And had... I must admit... I had never enthused of any... any such idea... I was wondering how... how... you had been lead to arrive at it... because ah... previous to this... I had always conceived... I had been forced to conceive of zero as a... as a... no quantity... with no sign... and a... when I saw the concept of minus zero in Qualley (sp)... by the way are you familiar with Qualley's (sp) work?

Otis T. Carr : 0:18:31 No we are not.

Ben Isquith : 0:18:33 So when I saw the concept of minus zero... in Qualley's (sp) work... I didn't know quite what to make of it... I thought is was... somehow a gray idea but somehow I didn't know how to really to evaluate it. I wonder how... how actually you were lead to arrive at this a... concept?

Otis T. Carr : 0:18:48 In a further study of Dr. Einstein's great inspirational work... and a... we corresponded with him... and a... we had a... the great good fortune to... have been advised by him at one time. We've learned... that... all measurements of time and space... had to be considered in relationship... to the observer. And therefore... there never was... a fixed equation... due to the observer being the... an attempt... as I understand it... which is satisfactory to me... in the applications of my work. The observer... himself is... is the... somewhat the... minus factor. And a... therefore you can not have... any fixed quantity... of any number... due to the observer. Now in physical form... this is something else again. And we worked for a considerable time... with ah... and had many conferences with the great... Nikola Tesla and in his evaluation of the sign wave... and the electrical principles. Wherein... a... the true value of alternating current and hydro-electric systems were developed by the great genius of this man. Further inspirations came to us... and finally... from this knowledge and from continuing to seek... we find this formula.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:39 Did you find it... Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:41 Yes... we did.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:43 No I said... did you?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:45 That's right.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:44 I mean... you said a group of you lead...

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:46 No.

Norman Colton : 0:20:47 I found it.

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:48 With the assistance of Mr. Colton in the evaluation. Mr. Colton researches very heavily in all the work that I do. And a... when we're... we collaborate very closely. Also Mr. Shea collaborates with me in research.

Long John Nebel : 0:21:05 Mr. Carr... when was O.T.C. incorporated? What year sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:21:10 1955

Long John Nebel : 0:21:11 1955... and how long prior to the year 1955 were you associated with... Mr. Shea and Mr. Colton?

Otis T. Carr : 0:21:21 Not before that... they have been... they've come with me since.

Long John Nebel : 0:21:25 And prior to that time then... prior to 1955... were you interested in this?

Otis T. Carr : 0:21:30 We started this development in 19... I use the editorial 'we'... I started this development in 1937. Our investigations began in 1937. We were actively making models in 1938. By 1942 we've come up with the basic principles.

Long John Nebel : 0:21:51 In other words... eighteen years... prior to this year... you had an idea in your mind Mr. Carr... that possibly some type of craft could be developed... that you could... get into Space with it... is that right?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:05 This is true.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:06 Do you hope... that this craft... if you are able to manufacture it... do you hope that you could go... to any other planets with it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:15 We know we could.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:16 You know you could.

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:17 We know.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:18 What planets for instance... that you think it would be capable of reaching?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:21 Escaping from the immediate gravity pull of the Earth... and plus the heavy atmosphere of the Earth... a... enables us... just as our satellites are doing now... (?)(?)(?) Sputnik... to join a universal free energy system. They have a velocity now of 18,000 miles per hour... more or less... without the expenditure of any energy whatsoever. Now any energy attached to the... would immediately throw them into... a... a higher velocity orbit which would expand further into Space. This is extremely easy to do. We... a... feel that our craft... will... gradually escape and comfortably escape the atmosphere of the Earth. And then... we can... handle velocities almost unimaginable in reaching other gravity systems. And the Moon should not be more than five hours away.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:31 Five hours away from Baltimore Maryland?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:34 That's right. That is right.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:36 How many people... a... can you take in this craft... if you are able to build it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:40 The one that we have on our design board is 45 foot in diameter. And the cabin would accommodate three... in total comfort.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:50 In comfort.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:51 That's right.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:53 And with type of equipment do you... a... hope to have on this spacecraft?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:57 On this craft... insofar as the individuals concerned... they can travel the same as on a... pressurized airliner or in a submarine. We have... we don't have the problem of a... G-suits that a... are brought about by high velocity. We don't have the problem of a... a... thermal barriers... which are spoken about... because the electromagnetic... a... system sets up... a protective shield in our craft which enables us... to overcome these barriers without any discomfort to the... a... occupants who are... a... passengers and operators of the craft. And we can a... very slowly... rise to the a... a... and we can... once we are outside this atmosphere... accelerate to tremendous velocity of a... well with perfection... in certain systems between planets... up to near the velocity of light itself.

Long John Nebel : 0:25:13 Mr. Carr... I am interested in this... very much so. In fact we had something else... planned for this morning for our discussion. And when we received the... telegram about one or two o'clock yesterday morning from Mr. Colton... we immediately contacted you and I'm very grateful that Mr. Colton was... kind enough to arrange your appearance this morning. I am greatly interested though in the... method of landing this craft... if... you were able to get to the Moon. Let us forget about going to the Moon a moment. If you take this craft up from this planet... from your... a... airport in... a... Baltimore... how does it land there?

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:56 Back in Baltimore?

Long John Nebel : 0:25:58 Yes.

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:58 Very simply. We can rise... at a... a very slow velocity of a hundred feet per minute... or less... and we can sit down... as gently as a feather. Because we have joined... part of the operation of our craft... is joining the universal system. This is a relative velocity craft. And the minute it reaches the relative velocity... of attractive inertial mass... it becomes weightless as... as regards to this... inertial attraction. It does... individually it is not a weightless... it has the same weight... as before. But when it reaches a relative rotation... it becomes an independent system... just as a planet is an independent system.

Long John Nebel : 0:26:45 Is there any gravitational pull at this point sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:47 None whatsoever.

Long John Nebel : 0:26:49 What happens to the occupants of the spacecraft... if there is no gravitational pull?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:51 They are perfectly comfortable... inside the craft.

Long John Nebel : 0:26:56 Well I mean... are they... are their heads on the ceiling?

Otis T. Carr : 0:26:59 Not at all.

Long John Nebel : 0:26:59 ...or are they laying in the wall or what?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:01 Not at all. They will have the same feeling of pressure... of weight that they have right now... because we will maintain as near as possible... the atmospheric pressure of the Earth at sea level within inside the cabin.

Long John Nebel : 0:27:17 Well... this is very technical for me Mr. Carr... so please accept my apologies for being rather stupid and ignorant in my line of questioning this morning. I am under the impression that the only reason I'm able to sit in this chair at the present time and remain in this position is because of gravitational pull. Am I correct in assuming that? 0:27:34 This is WOR Radio... your station in New York... seven-ten on the dial.

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:40 Now we have this at around fourteen pounds per square inch within our atmosphere.

Long John Nebel : 0:27:45 Now when you say... we have this... what are you referring to sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:47 Well... I mean... right here... now.

Long John Nebel : 0:27:48 You mean like in this room... in this studio?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:49 That's right.

Long John Nebel : 0:27:50 ... yes?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:51 So a... we have been... able to be sealed off away from such a condition... and then artificially... with atmospheric pressure... such as pressuring the cabin is maintained. We have it very well in submarines. The... system technically that is used in a submarine is always necessary to be use in our craft.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:13 Oh... In other words... under sea... where a submarine may be there is no gravitational pull... is that what you're saying?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:19 There is a gravitational pull at all times... yes. But we're speaking about the atmosphere of the particular occupants inside a sealed unit.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:29 Well... Is that necessary to keep the occupants in... in the position they desire... this is the atmospheric condition?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:36 Absolutely... because in a vacuum... they are... at the mercy of any velocity.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:41 What would happen... sir... if you had some type instrument that you could turn on at the present time... to eliminate... eliminate the gravitation pull... a that... we assume that is in this room? What would happen to me say?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:54 Well... You would... in a sense become very buoyant... and a... this is not a... in itself... a... maybe a novelty... but it certainly does not have any disastrous effects upon people at all.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:09 Would I still remain in this position?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:11 You could... but any movement... could very quickly move you out of position.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:15 Would... would our... our pads of papers... and pencils... and picture things... the mikes remain in this position?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:21 Until they were... brought into any movement. Then any movement would... immediately... make them... buoyant... themselves.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:31 Well... then... let me ask you this sir. I have... an ordinary lead pencil in my hand now... if I hold this up in the air... and if I release the pressure of my fingers from the body of this pencil... the pencil will automatically fall to the table because of gravitational pull... right?

Long John Nebel
Host
our design utilizes gravity electromagnetism and electromotive force in a relative field to get its functional operation.
we used... an electrified center. It's a center power core. Now this is what we call... an accumulator. In a vernacular sense... it is a battery. It is a storage cell... an accumulation of storage cells which provide electromotive force in the same manner that any known battery produces an electromotive force.
it is... completely round and completely square. Now in this surfaces are all round... but when we show it this way the surfaces are square. It has been proven in scientific laboratories that the very smallest unit of matter ever photographed under an electron microscope are square in shape.
this is a storage cell for electrical energy. In operation it generates electricity at the same time it puts out electromotive force. This is the central power system for our space craft.
It is a sphere... yes. And each unit is a hemisphere. We call the center of this this largest dimension the equator. And of course it expands contracts and expands to a point on each side. It's a union of two (?presto?) conical sections... that is what it is. Two right angle sections. And we say that it is the dimensions of Space and we have shown how this comes about.
we have a truly a new Space vehicle that is a not expendable. It does not a burn up its energy in a few seconds it a carries the energy with it and it is can leave the Earth's atmosphere and return man it also can be used within the atmosphere.
it is inexpensive it certainly doesn't cost as much as the systems of one expendable rocket.
This equation is brought about by the shape of our Utron electrical accumulator.
Utron Electrical Accumulator. This is the name we give for the central power core system of our spacecraft.
had many conferences with the great... Nikola Tesla and in his evaluation of the sign wave and the electrical principles. Wherein the true value of alternating current and hydro-electric systems were developed by the great genius of this man. Further inspirations came to us and finally from this knowledge and from continuing to seek we find this formula.
Our investigations began in 1937. We were actively making models in 1938. By 1942 we've come up with the basic principles.
Do you hope... that this craft if you are able to manufacture it do you hope that you could go to any other planets with it?
We feel that our craft
will gradually escape and
comfortably escape the atmosphere of the Earth. And then we can handle velocities almost unimaginable in reaching other gravity systems. And the Moon should not be more than five hours away.
The one that we have on
our design board is 45 foot in diameter. And
the cabin would accommodate three in total comfort.
We don't have the problem of a thermal barriers which are spoken about because the electromagnetic system sets up a protective shield in our craft which enables us to overcome these barriers...
Because we have joined part of the operation of our craft is joining the universal system. This is a relative velocity craft. And the minute it reaches the relative velocity of attractive inertial mass it becomes weightless as regards to this inertial attraction.
Otis T. Carr
First appearance
with Long John Nebel
My name is Long John... we call this...
The Party Line.
We're around from midnight to five-thirty six mornings during the week.
In what way
is your invention different
from the unidentified flying objects which
you have seen?
Otis T. Carr : 0:29:45 This is true.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:46 If we had this other condition... that you so aptly described a moment ago. If I released my fingers... from the body of this pencil... would the pencil remain in midair?

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:55 This is true... it would stay there.

Mel Shironey : 0:30:01 I believe... what you are saying Mr. Carr... is that... you would be creating an artificial gravitational system... within the... body of the... spacecraft... and yet there... would not be any... gravity... on the outside?

Otis T. Carr : 0:30:21 Exactly correct.

Mel Shironey : 0:30:22 And a... this is done by... as... I've been reading your... material. This is done by the... battery... which I've attempted to describe... spinning around... creating it's own... gravitational... influence this?

Otis T. Carr : 0:30:41 This too... this is a... the beginning... of an answer to the solution. We have... capacitor plates and electromagnets... a... as a part of this system. Now... this is counter-rotating. The electromagnets rotate... in one direction... and the... accumulator... the battery... rotates in another. The capacitor plates rotate in conjunction... with the... battery... so that we have a clockwise and counter clockwise rotation. Now... the third system... is the cabin that maintains the crew. This does not rotate. It is fixed... due to the fact that the two bodies are rotating clockwise and counter clockwise as an extenuation of the cabin. Therefore... the system that causes the craft to become... escape from the gravity pull. The craft itself... itself (do) this system... still has internally gravity... because it still has the same weight... that it had in the beginning... there is no lose in weight.

Mel Shironey : 0:31:59 What charges this battery?

Otis T. Carr : 0:32:01 This starts out... electrochemically... the same as other batteries. But we do have a regenerating system... that is very unique. We are able here... for the first time... to our knowledge... to use... atmospheric electricity... as a recharging system. This is done... as a part of the operational principal of the craft. Now it's capacitor plates...

Mel Shironey : 0:32:22 Wait a minute... just a minute. You say you use... atmospheric... as... electricity?

Otis T. Carr : 0:32:27 That's right.

Mel Shironey : 0:32:28 What happens... when you leave the atmosphere... and there isn't any atmosphere?

Otis T. Carr : 0:32:33 We have the electrochemical system... then to provide us with all the energy that we need. And have a regenerating system... in the manner of a regenerative coil... that a... recharge this battery... in the same manner... in which... your storage battery in your automobile is recharged now by a generator.

Mel Shironey : 0:32:53 If I understand the implications of what you're saying... it would appear to me... and I must confess... almost complete ignorance in this field. That what you have done... is... made the first... perpetual motion machine.

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:08 There is nothing... perpetual about our machine. The energies which cause it to operate are perpetual. You cannot destroy matter... you cannot destroy energy. Molecular flow... is perpetual and has been proven. In the laboratory they have proven that... electricity itself is immortal. When we take away resistance... you can set up a spark of electricity... and it will continue to operate... a... therefore... we have perpetual... energy. No machine that we can conceive of made by man would be perpetual... but with... it is... free energy. It is... self energizing. And as long... as all parts function... and... do not wear out... this is truly... a... self energizing machine.

Long John Nebel : 0:34:01 Well I'm going to interrupt for a moment... I certainly again... a... repeat the statement that was just made by... Mel Shironey... that it is very unfortunately that we... are not in a position to show you some the models that we have here this morning. And a... I will try... and a... I know that Ben Isquith and Mel Shironey will also try to... describe some of these models. In other words... we have them right here this morning. 0:34:25 We're talking this morning with... Otis T. Carr... President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. And Norman Evens Colton Director of Sales Engineering. My other guests this morning... Ben Isquith the cyberistrican and we have Mel Shironey advertizing executive with us. We have talked... many many time on these mics... across these mics... with many people who claim... they've been to Venus... and to... a lot of other places. And a lot of people have told us about flying saucers arriving here from other planets. I can only tell you this... that this morning... we have actual models... of... what Mr. Carr... describes as... spacecraft. That he claims... can reach the Moon... in five hours. 0:35:12 And a... say... would you like to have one? Because on this deal... the delivered price... payable in full on delivery... with no prior commitment required... and including all tooling and other overhead... twenty million dollars. And when you own one of those... five hours... from the time that it's delivered to you in Baltimore Maryland... you'll be up on the Moon. And in case you go there... don't forget... send me a postcard will you. Mel Shironey or Ben Isquith. I'm sorry.

Ben Isquith : 0:35:46 Mr. Carr... in going over this again... and a... I'm intrigued by the... mathematics of it... I don't quite understand it. I don't... know any... deriving these formula... your using the method of conventional... conventional algebraic methods. But you have here... one expression... minus X... divided by plus X... equals... X. Now... I would normally say... that minus X... divided by plus X... equals... minus one. Because... according algebraic conventions... any number divided by itself... equals one. And anytime you go through a division... with unequal sign... the quotient of the minus value. Now were you using conventional algebraic method?

Otis T. Carr : 0:36:34 No... we weren't. Partly conventional. But... we were joining... actual Space form and dimensions which is... (?) geometry... along with algebra. To arrive at satisfactory... equations for ourselves... which can
be demonstrated in the physical form. You don't have to pose as... a complete mathematician... but this has been a satisfactory formula... which has developed a functional application.

Ben Isquith : 0:37:14 But aren't the physical laws that... a... (?) upon which... your invention work... aren't they expectable... in mathematical terms?

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:24 Possibly... but a... I... I wouldn't say that I'm qualified. I'm very satisfied... with the formula.

Ben Isquith : 0:37:35 Well it... it... it... I mean it... puzzles me... I mean it's like saying that... a... minus four... divided by plus four... equals... four.

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:44 Sometimes... a... these a... solutions are not always... a... what they appear. As we know in one instance... one plus one... can equal... three.

Ben Isquith : 0:37:58 One plus one... can equal... three?

Otis T. Carr : 0:37:59 This is truly.

Ben Isquith : 0:38:01 When?

Otis T. Carr : 0:38:02 Well... because two conditions... (?) to be the third.

Ben Isquith : 0:38:09 That's right... the third condition is... two... isn't it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:38:12 Not necessarily... there's a... another sum.

Ben Isquith : 0:38:17 Could you go over some of these conditions... when this condition are... three?

Otis T. Carr : 0:38:22 Well... a... if one condition... operates one way... and another condition operates another way... and when they joined... you have another condition... and the sum is... three.

Ben Isquith : 0:38:36 Well... that's... that's a little over my head. The a... I've been looking at this... a... prototype... you have here. And I noticed... that within... that within a wooden... a small wooden... frame... or scaffolding. You have a larger model... of the a... double cones... that you have here on the table. And around it... is a wooden ring... and there seems to be coils of wires... with ah... what look to me to be... electromagnets.... now...(?) to be wrong?

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:12 That's right. This is a wood mock-up of a... functional operational model. This... this model has been... built... and has been activated... and it has a... checked out.

Ben Isquith : 0:39:25 Well... a...

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:26 Well... what we have here... is the central... section of the cones... that is our Utron Electric Accumulator... that is the power system. This system activates these electo-magnets... and in turn... activates...

Ben Isquith : 0:39:42 Does the system... the thing inside... activate the electromagnets on the outside?

Otis T. Carr : 0:39:46 That is true... yes. Now we do this by... contacting... this lead wires from the positive and negative poles of this battery to the a... electromagnets. And then we have circuit breakers... from these electromagnets... and we have counter-rotation. This... electromagnet... a... electromagnets... will rotate in this instance... a... counter clockwise... while... the internal... area is... rotating clockwise.

Ben Isquith : 0:40:23 Well... are these coils of wire... on the model itself... are... are they magnetized also?

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:28 The... the coils of wire... (?)...

Ben Isquith : 0:40:31 From inside the ring.

Otis T. Carr : 0:40:32 Well now these... inside the ring... these coils are... regenerative coils... they are... electromotive force coil. And they... assist in regenerating the battery. Because they are loops of wire conducted... a... brought through... a magnetic field... which sets up an electromotive force. These others are capacitor plates... and these are also activated... by the central power core. But... these capacitor plates... which can accept... the very high charge... through mutual conductance... also a... through... the process of ionization... utilize atmospheric electricity.

Ben Isquith : 0:41:20 Well... the fact that you're putting capacitor places... on the... on the... on sort of on... an outside flange... of the thing. Doesn't this... (?) the fact that you have... two cones... superimposed on their base... meeting at their bases?

Otis T. Carr : 0:41:34 No.

Ben Isquith : 0:41:34 So that you have... something that is... that is also square? I mean... if you turn that thing... I'm going to tilt that thing... which I can do with this smaller model... I can get a square. I don't see how you can with that?

Otis T. Carr : 0:41:45 Well... a... dimensionally it is. It is square... in these dimensions. And when... this rotation starts... and builds up to a certain... a... velocity... this form is very important... because we have... the total equation of... action and reaction. Now this is done by a system of coil winding... wherein we start at a point... and wind... expand to an equator... and from the equator... we continue our winding... down to a point. And this... physical expansion and contraction... in electromagnetic field. The gravity enters the picture... in the... in the form of this relative rotation. 0:42:38 When... the relative rotation... of any inertial attractive mass... is a... is a matter of dimension. So that the Earth... a... if we say... that it is eight thousand miles in diameter... we know its fixed rotation is... one in twenty-four. If we were one mile in diameter... its rotation would be eight thousand in twenty-four. And by the same system... our 45 foot craft will have a relative rotation of about... five hundred and eighty RPMs a minute. And in this... when it reaches this rotation... it is totally independent of its... inertial attractive mass... is an electromagnetic field.

Ben Isquith : 0:43:29 Five hundred and eighty RPMs a minute... that's not very fast... is it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:32 Well... a... if you saw a... a merry-go-round... going five hundred and eighty RPMs a minute... that would be quite fast.

Mel Shironey : 0:43:40 chuckles...

Ben Isquith : 0:43:40 Well... what about these um... if... I mean... I think it is quite within my capacity to take these small... models you have here... and to spin it at five hundred... or even more... at five hundred and eighty RPMs a minute... will they take off?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:54 This model was spun... at forty thousand RPMs a minute. And when it did... it... set a pressure pattern equivalent to one thousand tons... it exploded. The horsepower rating was around seven... a little over seven hundred. Six engineers checked this out. Now the relative rotation... of this model... would be about... fifty-eight thousand RPMs a minute. And when it reache this rotation... it would immediately take off.

Long John Nebel : 0:44:31 Well Mr. Carr... I'm sorry to interrupt at this time. But we're going to have to take care of a little business. Otis T. Carr President and Norman Evens Colton Director of Sales Engineering. I might also add that a... Sam Vandivert... the photographer who... took all of the pictures that... are appearing in the current edition of Argosy Magazine dated April. The story about The Party Line... with photographs of many of the people that we've had on The Party Line. Sam is here with us this morning... and he's taking some... a... pictures of the a... various models that a... Mr. Carr and Mr. Colton brought with them from Baltimore. And a... no doubt these pictures will be seen in some national publication in the near future at which time I will certainly call it to your attention. 0:45:25 We're talking about the... OTC X-1 Circular Foil Spacecraft. This is a craft described by Mr. Carr... and he tells us that... when it is completed... you can go to the Moon... in just five hours. But my next question automatically would be... who wants to go to the Moon? But I guess there's possibly something there... that would be of interest to somebody. We'll sort of start this segment with telegram from Gloria Childs of New York. Dear Wondon... Please ask... Otis... Otis... Otis Carr this. Would the time factor be involved with his craft? Sincerely Gloria Childs.

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:12 In our system... in the Solar System... the time factor would be involved... yes... within our own system. We... evaluate time on the velocity of light... and a... in certain systems... if we exceed the velocity of light... unquestionably time would slow up. Just as its also...

Ben Isquith : 0:46:37 Wait.... excuse me Mr. Carr... your craft can exceed the velocity of light?

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:40 We don't say this... we say in other systems.

Ben Isquith : 0:46:45 I... I thought nothing could do it... I thought that was a constant fact... in the Universe.

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:49 Not necessary... we do not believe... so.

Ben Isquith : 0:46:52 Well... This is one of Einstein's concepts.

Otis T. Carr : 0:46:56 We don't believe it a... it is... totally constant. Possibly in our system... in our Solar System there not necessarily true in other systems.

Ben Isquith : 0:47:08 Einstein's... (?) rule was an old system... the speed of light... is the limiting... velocity in the Universe. If anything approaching the speed of light... it becomes pure energy.

Otis T. Carr : 0:47:16 Pure energy... but a... another system... it could change.

Ben Isquith : 0:47:21 Well what other systems?

Otis T. Carr : 0:47:23 Other solar systems... we are... we are completely... completely controlled by our system and our own Sun. And unquestionably the velocity of light here... is our yardstick and our pattern... our craft is designed... around it.

Long John Nebel : 0:47:39 Are you speechless at the moment Ben?

Ben Isquith : 0:47:41 Yeah... I... I am going... going to go home and... and take the books off the shelf and... and throw them out. Because I... I... I... I can't conceive of it. I mean... a...

Long John Nebel : 0:47:49 Welcome in the class you (?) and alarmed. Don't you find... that every day... you learn something... that possibly yesterday... you were not familiar with it?

Ben Isquith : 0:47:59 Fact... it's true in come cases... but John... but you just don't suddenly upset one of the basic fundaments of the Universe... namely that... the speed of light is a constant... in the Universe... beyond which nothing can exceed it's velocity.

David Bell : 0:48:13 Ben... I'm glad that you're more or less speechless at the moment... because... it gives me an opportunity...

Ben Isquith : 0:48:18 You better get away from me... because it might be catching.

some : 0:48:21 laugh...

David Bell : 0:48:20 It gives me... it gives me an opportunity... to get in a word edge wise... which has been rather difficult up until now.

Ben Isquith : 0:48:27 I want everyone to know that Dave Bell and I are really friends.

David Bell : 0:48:30 Yes... a... Ben... how are you able to make statements about the speed of light... a... in other solar systems?

Ben Isquith : 0:48:38 I'm not making statements about the speed of light. I'm making statements about Einstein's Theory of Relativity... which states... that he takes... as fundamental axiom... that the speed of light... is constant in all systems.

David Bell : 0:48:51 Doesn't Mr. Einstein say... if you stop a relative...

Ben Isquith : 0:48:54 Doctor Einstein

David Bell : 0:48:55 Dr. Einstein... I'm sorry. Doesn't he say that... a... the... any... a... measurement is relative... a... to other measurements?

Ben Isquith : 0:49:05 That's quite true except this one.

David Bell : 0:49:07 Except this one.

Ben Isquith : 0:49:08 It's the first axiom. In fact... that's could just be... the first axiom... upon that... and another axiom... would be... the whole base upon the... Theory of Relativity is based upon on. I mean... you've read it... haven't you Dave?

David Bell : 0:49:19 Yes I had Ben. What is an axiom?

Ben Isquith : 0:49:22 And axiom is... a self-evident truth.

David Bell : 0:49:26 This is assumed... (?).

Ben Isquith : 0:49:28 You know... the things... the things you come out with on the program occasionally.

several : 0:49:30 laugh...

David Bell : 0:49:36 Thank you very much Ben. Dr. Einstein was assuming... that a... this... constancy of the speed of light... was a self-evident truth... isn't this correct?

Ben Isquith : 0:49:49 He... wasn't assuming it... he was... you don't assume. In fact one of his quotations... was that... I take this as a fundamental rock upon which I build the entire theory.

David Bell : 0:50:01 Ben... I...

Ben Isquith : 0:50:01 This is not an assumption... it's kind of strong to be an assumption.

David Bell : 0:50:04 If the speed of light... depend to any extent... on the density of the medium... to which it is passing?

Ben Isquith : 0:50:10 No.

David Bell : 0:50:11 It doesn't. Can you explain the fraction?

Ben Isquith : 0:50:17 That's something entirely different.

David Bell : 0:50:19 It has nothing to do with light?

Ben Isquith : 0:50:22 It has nothing to do with the beam of light... it has to do with the direction of light.

David Bell : 0:50:28 Then why is it... that a light beam is bent... when it passes at an angle other than 90 degrees... from a medium of one density into a medium of another density?

Ben Isquith : 0:50:39 It's being bent... it is not being slowed down.

David Bell : 0:50:42 How is it bent?

Ben Isquith : 0:50:48 My personal thing was not toxic...

several : 0:50:50 laugh...

Ben Isquith : 0:50:50 ... it is bent... it is not being slowed down. Now I will refer you to a simple little experiment... conducted by two man called... Michaelson & Morely. The speed of light is constant. The medium for which it travels... has nothing to do with its speed. Mainly... the atmosphere of the Earth... the emptiness of Space... or anything else.

David Bell : 0:51:13 Mrs. Michaelson & Morely had...

Ben Isquith : 0:51:15 Doctors Michaelson & Morely.

David Bell : 0:51:17 Doctors Michaelson & Morely... had physical opportunity to test our fair theory in the interest of space people.

Ben Isquith : 0:51:25 (?)(?)... light travels through the emptiness of space.

David Bell : 0:51:29 The experiment was done by means of... rotating disks with slits in them...

Ben Isquith : 0:51:35 It were done by flashlights.

David Bell : 0:51:36 Yes... well the Michaelson & Morely experiments was done...

Ben Isquith : 0:51:39 They've since been done... with lights from the Sun... and Michaelson & Morely experiment has been duplicated countless of times... with light from the Sun... which I assume... travels through empty Space.

David Bell : 0:51:47 But without...

Ben Isquith : 0:51:47 I'd like you still believe in the universal ether theory.

David Bell : 0:51:50 ... but without... one of the a... disks being located at the Sun. Both of the disks were located on the Earth.

Ben Isquith : 0:51:56 That's right... both of the disks were located Sun and the original... on the Earth... and the original Michaelson & Morely experiments... since then the Michaelson & Morely experiments have (?)... using... using the light from the Sun.

Long John Nebel : 0:52:07 Well if I may interrupt a moment... a Dave...

David Bell : 0:52:09 Yes.

Long John Nebel : 0:52:09 ... the statement that was made by our guest Mr. Carr... I was just wondering... do you disagree... with the possibility of it?

David Bell : 0:52:17 Well... John I... have no way of really determining... what happens... to an object when it approaches or exceeds the speed of light. I do know that a... Einstein's Theory of Relativity... says that the mass increases... as it approaches the speed of light... the longitudinal dimension decreases... approaches zero. And that when it has approached the speed of light... it becomes pure energy. Now I...

Long John Nebel : 0:52:49 Do you disagree then... with the theory... that Mr. Carr has expounded here this morning... a... for the principle... of this spacecraft?

David Bell : 0:52:58 Well John I don't think that I'm able to. Because I couldn't even... a... agree or disagree with Dr. Einstein. I'm a little too stupid.

Norman Colton : 0:53:07 I'd like to put a word in at this point.

Long John Nebel : 0:53:08 Mr. Colton... please.

Norman Colton : 0:53:10 Ask for a definition... I think in talking about the speed of light... and thinking of that speed... in terms of... 186,000 miles a second... a... we're getting a little bit... a... mixed up with a... the wave velocity of light. And remember that the equation is... the speed of light squared... which a... in my poor mathematics should be something around a... 3 trillion miles a second.

Ben Isquith : 0:53:36 No that's not it at all.

Otis T. Carr
Burst of brilliance came from out of this world... Nikola Tesla
We have capacitor plates and electromagnets as a part of this system. Now this is counter-rotating.
The electromagnets rotate in one direction and the accumulator the battery rotates in another. The capacitor plates rotate in conjunction with the battery so that we have a clockwise and counter clockwise rotation. Now the third system is the cabin that maintains the crew. This does not rotate. It is fixed...
This starts out electrochemically the same as other batteries. But we do have a regenerating system that is very unique. We are able here for the first time to our knowledge to use atmospheric electricity as a recharging system. This is done as a part of the operational principal of the craft. Now it's capacitor plates...
That what you have done... is made the first perpetual motion machine.
There is nothing perpetual about our machine. The energies which cause it to operate are perpetual. You cannot destroy matter you cannot destroy energy. Molecular flow is perpetual and has been proven. In the laboratory they have proven that electricity itself is immortal. When we take away resistance you can set up a spark of electricity and it will continue to operate therefore we have perpetual energy. No machine that we can conceive of made by man would be perpetual but with it is free energy. It is self energizing. And as long as all parts function and do not wear out this is truly a self energizing machine.
what we have here is the central section of the cones that is our Utron Electric Accumulator that is the power system. This system activates these electo-magnets and in turn activates...
these coils are regenerative coils they are electromotive force coil. And they assist in regenerating the battery. Because they are loops of wire conducted brought through a magnetic field which sets up an electromotive force. These others are capacitor plates and these are also activated by the central power core. But these capacitor plates which can accept the very high charge through mutual conductance also through the process of ionization utilize atmospheric electricity.
This is a wood mock-up of a functional operational model. This model has been built and has been activated and it has a checked out.
Now we do this by contacting this lead wires from the positive and negative poles of this battery to the a electromagnets. And then we have circuit breakers from these electromagnets and we have counter-rotation. This electromagnets will rotate in this instance counter clockwise while the internal area is rotating clockwise.
It is square in these dimensions. And when this rotation starts and builds up to a certain velocity this form is very important because we have the total equation of action and reaction. Now this is done by a system of coil winding wherein we start at a point and wind expand to an equator and from the equator we continue our winding down to a point. And this physical expansion and contraction in electromagnetic field. The gravity enters the picture in the in the form of this relative rotation.
Are you speechless at the moment Ben?

~

Long John Nebel : 0:53:39 Do you disagree Ben.

Ben Isquith : 0:53:40 No the speed...

Norman Colton : 0:53:41 Light is travelling at a forward velocity in a wave motion. So the total velocity is far in excess of 186,000 miles a second.

Ben Isquith : 0:53:50 No. You are perhaps thinking of the famous formula... E=MC squared. Which is not the measurement of the speed of light... it's the expression of how much energy is released... by... by matter being changed into energy. The energy resulting from... from a certain... measurement of matter... the energy that resulting from this unit of matter... is equal... is times... the matter times the... square... of the speed of light which is... 186,000 miles... per second squared.

Norman Colton : 0:54:22 Well I'm glad I qualified my mathematics... because a... I think we do accept that the... light travelling in a forward direction... in a straight line direction... is travelling... in a wave motion. So that if its forward direction...

Ben Isquith : 0:54:37 Well... I mean... I don't know whether it is. I mean a... I can introduce you to twenty physicists who say wave... and others will say protons... and a... I can even get three or four who say it travels in wavicles.

Otis T. Carr : 0:54:50 May I...

Long John Nebel : 0:54:51 Mr. Carr... please.

Otis T. Carr : 0:54:52 Intercede here to state that a... professor Pitcard... has a... the famous a... says here... (?) has a... often evaluated... a... fulling up of time. And his a... his comparison of this is that a... a space voyager... could in a relatively short time for himself... travel in the galaxy far beyond our own... providing his craft... had such velocity to so do. And a... then return to his point of beginning... of in this instance... if we say it was the planet Earth would find that two thousand years had elapsed. And not even... any of these progenie or... children or so forth were even survival. Now this is... thinking men who have come up with these evaluations. We...

Ben Isquith : 0:55:53 Well... this is quite true... it's part of Einstein's theory.

Otis T. Carr : 0:55:55 But a... this definitely in my mind changes... the velocity picture. And this... if you... if you change time... you must change the velocity of light.

Ben Isquith : 0:56:09 Well... if... if... if... if you accept Einstein's picture... that time slows down... as a system approaches the speed of light... and that's exactly what he says... approaches the speed of light. Which has been experimentally proven at Bell Telephone... Laboratory that... when particles approach the speed of light... time does slow down. Now this is quite true. And if you accept... that part of Einstein's theory... I mean... I don't understand why you don't accept... the original hypothesis upon which the entire structure was built... namely the speed of light is a constant in all systems.

Otis T. Carr : 0:56:42 Maybe we're a little radical in our thinking. However... we must get back... to what has been accomplished. We have invented an electrified system... which makes it possible for... a propulsion system... that you put into operation... to carry... human beings... with a... a fuel system that is not expendable... and take them into Space... and bring them back in return and this craft could... if I had the tools now... and as those tools are available in large plants. And if one is available to me... we could have this craft on the Moon within six months from this date.

Long John Nebel : 0:57:23 Mr. Carr... on this sheet that I have in front of me... the... sheet that is headed... with this a... with these words... Performance Characteristics and Delivery Terms for the OTC-X1 Circular Foil Spacecraft. I notice... a... in the paragraph headed a... Physical Components. That you mentioned in here... safety under normal conditions to be anticipated in flight... to be... to within one thoudand miles away from Earth. Now... maybe I am not reading this correctly sir. But the way I read this... I am assuming... that at the present time... you feel that the OTC-X1 craft... could go a distance of a thousand miles away from Earth. And yet just a few minutes ago... you told us that you could go to the Moon... in five hours.

Otis T. Carr : 0:58:18 This is true. The same craft... this... after all this was a contract form... and a... we have not been to the Moon. We are going to enjoy looking at the Earth one thousand miles out. And I think this would be satisfactory... if we make a safe return.

Long John Nebel : 0:58:35 From a distance of a thousand miles?

Otis T. Carr : 0:58:37 That's right.

Norman Colton : 0:58:37 On the thousand mile figure was picked... as an arbitrary figure for demonstration purposes only. Before we delivered the craft... we would give it a shake down cruise... and take it approximately a thousand miles out from...

Long John Nebel : 0:58:52 Before you delivered to the purchaser?

Norman Colton : 0:58:54 That's right.

Long John Nebel : 0:58:55 Then let me ask you this sir... Mr. Colton... a... how long would it take you to... to go a thousand miles away from the Earth and return... providing that you don't hover around some thousand miles away from the Earth?

Norman Colton : 0:59:10 Well... it could be done in a matter of minutes. It would probably a... because of the a... takeoff and landing... practicalities... it could be done comfortably... in the space of an hour.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:25 An hour.

Norman Colton : 0:59:26 One hour.

Long John Nebel : 0:59:28 It could be done comfortably.

Norman Colton : 0:59:29 That's right. To avoid a... awkward velocities... any discomforts to...

Long John Nebel : 0:59:36 Well... than in other words... the... the possibility of going to the Moon in five hours is... is... is a dream at the moment... right?

Norman Colton : 0:59:45 No... I wouldn't say it's a dream... (?)(?)...

Long John Nebel : 0:59:47 Well... if it takes you an hour to go out a thousand miles... a... to go a thousand miles from Earth and return... if it takes you an hour... it should take you... a little longer than five to go to the Moon... unless you've got a... you know... an indirect route that will... save a little time.

Norman Colton : 1:00:03 If you think of it in terms of a... a passenger train... leaving the station and arriving at another station. Or an aircraft... its travel between cities. The... a... bit proportion of the amount of time it takes... in the... takeoff and approach and landing. The a... distance of approximately sixty miles... in the heavy atmosphere... would be negotiated rather slowly... relatively slowly. Once out of that atmosphere... as Mr. Carr said a... almost any... a... speed is hypothetically possible... up to approaching the speed of light. You wouldn't approach any such speed because you would have accomplished your thousand miles in the wink of an eye. That's why I say that these figures are a... just rounded off... and are selected arbitrarily for discussion and for... preparing these contract proposals.

Long John Nebel : 1:01:01 Mr. Colton... twenty million dollars... sounds like a lot of money... that is if you were intending to buy a pound of jellybeans with it. It would be a classical amount of money. But twenty million dollars doesn't sound like a lot of money to me... if you could produce the craft that you have described this morning and the craft that described in the various brochures you have given us. Do you... have any idea in your mind... why... some of our big aeronautical concerns... a... Fairchild... Lockheed... I don't know the names of all of them... certainly numerous ones. Why it is that they... haven't taken advantage of this opportunity to invest... some twenty million dollars... and it's quite possible that it wouldn't cost them twenty million dollars if they have some of the equipment as... Mr. Carr has suggested... there... there are some tools that are available in other plants?

Norman Colton : 1:01:57 Up to the present time... perhaps the a... total and very simple answer is... we haven't approached them... directly with an offer to fabricate craft (?). We haven't offered to sell them anything yet.

Long John Nebel : 1:02:12 Well... you... you have a... you were incorporated in '55... right sir?

Norman Colton : 1:02:18 Yes sir.

Long John Nebel : 1:02:19 And I imagine that you have made... some efforts... to a... get a... some money to be able to build your plant?

Norman Colton : 1:02:30 Yes. Our only formal proposals... to construct these craft up to the present time... have all been directed to... government agencies.

Long John Nebel : 1:02:40 In other words... this particular... a... sheet that I have in front of me with this offer... such as the performance factor... the physical component... and the delivered price... and the delivery... and so-on and so-on. This is... is offered only to the government?

Norman Colton : 1:02:56 Up to this time... it has been offered only to the government.

Long John Nebel : 1:02:58 When you say up until this time... do you mean up to the year '58?

Norman Colton : 1:03:01 Yes.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:02 Is there any reason why the offer was limited to... only the government?

Norman Colton : 1:03:08 I would sum it all up... a... and use the word... a... patriotic. It was offered only to the government... a... up to the present time... because we felt... that a... the first opportunity... for the... use of these craft... should be given to the government... to its very agencies. And... I don't mean to a... a... limit that to military agencies. These a... offers were made to the... Secretary of Commerce... to the Secretary of Interior... and they would be... a... freely projected to any of the other... a... official agencies that might have use for these craft... or for these propulsion systems... or the... energy systems.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:49 Is that what you're selling... a propulsion system an energy system... or are you selling a spacecraft?

Norman Colton : 1:03:54 Well... a... we've been talking about a spacecraft exclusively tonight so far. But a... this... a... same power package... which will... energize and propel a circular foil spacecraft... can also produce... electric current or mechanical motion... a... through gears and pulleys and conventional a... motion arrangements.

Long John Nebel : 1:04:17 Do you think that the government would frown on any... a... private group... a... raising twenty million dollars... to build a craft... that they could go to the Moon? Or do you think our government would... a... want to have some control over it. But that they would have the first rights to... or at least the rights to decide... a... who the occupants would be of the spacecraft.

Norman Colton : 1:04:40 No... I don't think that a... anyone would want to be restrictive of what we have characterized a... in our published advertisements as... peaceful atomic energy... and a new electrical age. This system that you see here in mock-up prototype... is capable of... energizing... almost any device... that a... today is energized by some other system or using some fuel other than the... electromagnetic energies... a... that we call Space Forces... the forces of gravity and magnetism.

Long John Nebel : 1:05:16 Mister Colton... you just made a remark that... a couple of minutes ago that a... you have never offered... a... this plan... this proposition to... any aeronautical companies... right?

Norman Colton : 1:05:28 That is correct. Not in a formal manner.

Long John Nebel : 1:05:32 In a formal manner... manner. I... I would assume though... that a... almost all of the... large aircraft companies... must be aware... of a... OTC The fact that I do a little bit... for five and a half hours... on radio at night... and if I'm aware of O.T.C Enterprises... I imagine that a... some of the men over at Fairchild... and Lockheed... and a... Wright and places like that... must have heard of a... O.T.C. Enterprises?

Norman Colton : 1:06:06 Well... I'll say frankly... that I know that some have. And when I use terms like... formally and officially... I'm not a... trying to be devious... it's just a... our visits from a... aircraft people so far... have been informal and exploratory visits from a... employees who spoke only for themselves. We've had a lot of mail from employees of... aircraft manufacturing companies.

Long John Nebel : 1:06:30 But no from the principles?

Norman Colton : 1:06:32 Not from the principles.

Long John Nebel : 1:06:33 Isn't that... a little shocking... sir?

Norman Colton : 1:06:37 Well... I a... prefer not to characterize it. I don't know a... what the reason might be... really.

Long John Nebel : 1:06:46 Do you think we are being kidded by our government? Or... do you really believe... that the government is interested in getting to the Moon. And if you've got a piece of equipment here... that can be manufactured for... a small amount of money... like twenty million dollars... which is a drop in the bucket... in my book. And... if you can go to the Moon in five hours... what are they playing for... down at Cape Canaveral? What's all this time being wasted? I mean if you really have it... mister Colton... I don't know. In other words... I... I see a mock-up here and a... it's just an interesting gadget... to say the least. And I've seen your... your brochures... and they're very attractive... their... mouth watering to say the least.

Norman Colton : 1:07:24 I agree with you. And a... my answer to that... a... would be only opinion and would be purely projectural. I can tell you that a... we have a... in conjunction with the specification sheet that you've been reading from... a... with opening and closing paragraph... a... made it clear... and also... in conversations with the... principles of some of these agencies... made it clear that... if they will a... write out an order... to take delivery of a satisfactorily demonstrated full scale craft... at a COD price of twenty million dollars. Before we... attempt to perform on that order... or before we even pick up the order... we will... a... manufacture and demonstrate a... a miniature prototype model... of say... ten foot diameter. To prove... that... our statements are correct... and that we can do... what we say we will do.

Long John Nebel : 1:08:29 My guest this morning... Otis T. Carr... President of O.T.C Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. And Norman Evens Colton... Director of Sales Engineering of O.T.C. Enterprises. Ben Isquith is with us Dave Bell... Mel Shironey. And I had another mic... that believe me I... I mentioned earlier I said... that nine chances out of ten... when Roy... is finished with his last performance... he'd probably want... you want to join for a moment Roy? Have a seat. While a... Roy Benson... a.... the boy's comic who is a...

some : 1:09:01 caugh... caugh.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:01 ... joining us. Do you want to put this... do you want to... contact that for me please. Thank you. Roy Benson is with us. Stopped over after a... playing a... a little club bate in Max's Busy Bee... or been working one of the better sides?

Roy Benson : 1:09:19 No... they're telecasts.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:22 Who's your telecast?

Roy Benson : 1:09:23 Oh yeah?

Long John Nebel : 1:09:23 Ya.

Roy Benson : 1:09:23 The Jackie Paar Show.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:25 (?)(?) oh you have a minute...

Roy Benson : 1:09:25 Ya.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:25 I didn't know... I thought I was kidding you for a moment... I didn't know you were better than this place... I thought you were here during the week.

Roy Benson : 1:09:30 Well I had the pitch from (?) on fortieth.

some : 1:09:31 laugh...

Roy Benson : 1:09:35 That's a very interesting looking model here... you know.

Long John Nebel : 1:09:37 Isn't it a fascinating thing?

Roy Benson : 1:09:38 When do we take off?

Long John Nebel : 1:09:40 Well now... this thing you know... will take you right to the Moon... not this one... I mean this is a mock-up... will take you to the Moon in five hours. I'd like to just give you a little... a few facts about this... the performance factor. O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated... will demonstrate... that the OTC X-1 craft... will depart from any specified location in the continental United States... orbit... one or more times... outside the Earth's atmosphere... and land its crew... safely... within the inter rotunda courtyard of the Pentagon building in Washington... or at any other locations... best suited... to publish observation.

Roy Benson : 1:10:26 Very nice this thing. What are these coils around the edge... I noticed some... some wound...

Long John Nebel : 1:10:30 Tell you what Roy... would you... would you care to take a moment... to describe to our listeners... now wait a minute... is ah... let me find out a little... Al... is he on mic alright? Roy.... fine.

Roy Benson : 1:10:40 Well... I'll do...

Long John Nebel : 1:10:40 You want to describe this?

Roy Benson : 1:10:41 I'll do the best I can. Now this is. To describe this thing the best I can... imagine if you will... a circle... about... oh... sixteen... seventeen... eighteen inches in diameter. Two circles that... sort of form a... I don't know... sort of a colonnade. In other words... one circle thing over another circle thing. And then... a... in the... from the top of the circle and coming down from the bottom of the circle... are two cones. In other words... one is up like a... like a... a round pyramid... and the other is was like an inverted round pyramid. There are a number of... what appear to be... copper wound coils around the edge of it. If you looked at it head on... it would look like an old fashion airplane engine... more or less. 1:11:28 And then there is sort of a framework on the top... and under neath... there are sort of braces. I can't find the tweeter on it but...

some : 1:11:36 laughter...

Roy Benson : 1:11:36 ... that's about the general idea. And oh... I noticed this... that this... that this ah... these... these cones that are placed mouth to mouth... with some coils... and what appear to be... are the edge... the coils are on the edge of the thing... it revolves within this structure. That is the only way I can describe it. It is a tough thing to describe actually... I think. And if I had BCA training... I could probably do much better.

Long John Nebel : 1:12:02 That's my problem... too... I haven't got BCA training. Well now... a... what is this one a... Mr. Colton... that you have over here?

Norman Colton : 1:12:09 Well... this is a... paper mock-up... to... show the... a... counter rotation principle. And this a... outside circular section... is the... section a... that Roy is describing looking at the other a... exposed mock-up. Which contains the... electrified... a... horseshoe magnets. And this would rotate in one direction... a... counter clockwise... while the... center section with the Utron Electrical Accumulator... which we described as two inverted cones mouth to mouth... would rotates clockwise in the other direction.

Roy Benson : 1:12:49 In other words... would these coils... be in this part of this...

Norman Colton : 1:12:54 We added in... (?) counter clockwise... that is correct.

Roy Benson : 1:12:57 What is this material... that is used in the construction of it... I don't mean the mock-up... I mean... in the actual a... spacecraft (?)?

Norman Colton : 1:13:05 A number of materials would be used...

Roy Benson : 1:13:07 Well I mean... would this be aluminum... sir?

Norman Colton : 1:13:10 Possibly aluminum... possibly fiberglass. Certainly... not any... a... materials or metals... or products that are not known to us... as a... conventional products... and easily available... or conveniently manufactured.

Roy Benson : 1:13:30 Mr. Colton... at this speed... would this have to rotate in the a... (banging noise) in order to over come... the Earth's atmosphere?

Norman Colton : 1:13:39 I'm glad you asked that... because... there is definitely a subject of Space and spacecraft and space flight. We have been conditioned to regard it... as dealing with Space... outside of the Earth's atmosphere. Of course the craft that a... O.T.C. Enterprises will manufacture... are highly functional... in the atmosphere... and can take... (?) three passengers in the (?)flight(?)... as easily as New York to Washington as from New York to the Moon. (?) to the Earth... which we discuss (?)(?)(?)(?) we could also be discussing... (?) to the Moon... or the a... rotation would be... relatively different for similar Space function. In proximity to the Earth... (?) as specified in the (?) from... (?) put that in a 45 foot diameter craft... that has... a... a... central rotation speed... to equal... a relatively equal the... Earth's rotation speed... of about five hundred and eighty revolutions per minute.

Long John Nebel : 1:15:02 This is 710 on the dial... WOR Radio... New York City

Norman Colton : 1:15:08 (?)(?)(?)(?)(?) relative weighlessness.

Roy Benson : 1:15:14 When you say... five hundred and eighty RPMs... do you mean... that the outer rim is rotating in one direction... five hundred and eighty RPMs... and the inner cone is rotating in the other direction... a... at the same speed... giving a total... a... rotation of one relative to the other of... eleven hundred and sixty?

Norman Colton : 1:15:34 (?).. exactly. Although... I don't know... if the eleven sixty... has any bearing on the matter.

Roy Benson : 1:15:41 Well... it would be twice... a... the rotation in reference to the Earth.

Norman Colton : 1:15:46 What we're (?) here... with a... we're not shooting for a certain rotation... for the sake of rotation... but for the sake of relativity to the attracted mass. The Earth at... eight thousand miles in diameter... rotating once in twenty-four hours... is relatively equal... to a 45 foot craft... rotating at five hundred eighty. For a (?) vehicle (?) (?) what would be an analogies to which... five hundred eighty... would calculate to be the approximate rotational speed of an automobile tire on a car... moving at about twenty-five to thirty miles an hour... depending on the size of the tire.

Roy Benson : 1:16:30 There was a thought that occurred to me tonight... on that description a basic description of this device... this would seem... seen from the outside. I was attempting to describe... the inside of the... the mechanism which is very difficult. But I think I could describe it... this way if I may... to the audience. Imagine taking a couple of loud speaker cones and putting them mouth to mouth. Now that seems to be the body of the craft as you would see it in flight or lets say landing. Now around this... is an independent ring... running though... from the top to the bottom is an axis... and the axis is based through the ring. So that these two... mouth to mouth speaker cones... revolve inside the ring... and on its axis. Am I correct... or fairly close in that? You've got to give them... a picture...

Norman Colton : 1:17:24 A very good picture.

Roy Benson : 1:17:25 That's a rough idea.

Norman Colton : 1:17:26 In its totality of course... it looks like... whether it's coming... and a... described as a flying saucer.

Roy Benson : 1:17:32 Yes. Sort of... in a way it is like a flying saucer... it a... sort of reminds me of a... gyroscope.

Norman Colton : 1:17:40 That is a good analogy too... this a... craft among other things... has a... tremendous structural stability because all of this a... (?) is around it's own central axis. So that it would be completely vibration less. And it will not have... a... the (?)(?) of other type of a... moving vehicles that we're aquatinted with.

Roy Benson : 1:18:07 Well a... I... I missed... unfortunately part of this show. Have you described the basic principle of the thing?

Norman Colton : 1:18:14 Yes... Mr. Carr...a... described the basic principle and a... the relationship of electricity and electromagnetism... and electromotive force and mechanical motion as they are employed in the (?)(?) that you described in the other wooden mock-up.

Roy Benson : 1:18:33 Well could a... could a... lets say... a small craft be made... to take off at least? In other words... could this be made at this time in a small scale... and made to take off as an experiment.

Norman Colton : 1:18:47 Mr. Carr... (?)(?)

Otis T. Carr : 1:18:50 (background noise). We plan to build... a (?) prototype model as demonstration device. Now I would like to state... that a... a (?) operational models... have been built by me... and tested. Each one has been airborne. One was lost... entirely... in Space... we had a... control system and this one didn't function. This has already been done.

Roy Benson : 1:19:22 I see. You know... years ago... a man showed me... two cross papers... this is no relationship to Homer or Boomer. They were two pieces of balsa wood... curved slightly upward... (?)(?)(?)(?)(?)(?) and a... attach it with an ordinary rubber band. And it would spin. Now this was went I was a kid... you know how long ago that was. (?)(?) this thing would take off. And go up very nicely... and then... just slightly descend to the ground. And so it's not surprising for me... that a thing like this is quite feasible. As a matter of fact... look at the fantastic flying platform. I think (?) maybe... (?)... (?)(?)

Ben Isquith : 1:20:06 So what you just described here (?)(?)(?)...

Roy Benson : 1:20:13 (?) well he said... that someday... this is going to be... an... an... important way of... flying... instead of the prop in the front. (?) worry about the helicopter... okay. Now... the... the... the platform... how does that work... and... you've been kind enough to call us if you will... how does it differ from this particular... flying saucer? That's what it really is. In principle...in other words... in motivation.

David Bell : 1:20:38 The flying platform... a... I believe that's the combination of a... propeller and a jet. Thus directing motion downwards. This does have an extra... that I have been able to find.

Otis T. Carr : 1:20:52 None whatsoever.

David Bell : 1:20:53 I just calculated... that the... speed of the circumference is... one thousand two hundred sixty three miles per hour. Is that kind of (?)(?)... doesn't it? (?)(?)(?)?

Otis T. Carr : 1:21:05 No it won't. Because a... it has its own... protectional shield... which is... its electromagnetic activation. If a... we described... vernacular sense such as... it's a... well it's a self contained unit... the same as an orange. It contains its juice with any skin... same as (?)... maintain our own circulatory system... mammals and animals and so forth. In the same sense... this... a... ionization of these capacitor plates sets up a glow... and incidentally these craft will glow very brilliantly with a very soft... a... luminescent light.

Roy Benson : 1:21:49 What color?

Otis T. Carr : 1:21:52 It would a... be... in the nature of a... blue green or very similar to a... the... electric arc... you see in welding.

Roy Benson : 1:22:02 Sort of a cold...

David Bell : 1:22:04 I know what color... I think I know what...

Otis T. Carr : 1:22:06 And a... this... this is the shield of protection. So we do not have a heat barrier here... in forward velocity at all. Now this electromagnetic shield is being tested out now in conventional aircraft and proved very efficient. But we have known... that this function... for a long time... in our particular operation. We found it out by physical actual tests.

Roy Benson : 1:22:33 Have you patented this?

Otis T. Carr : 1:22:35 We have a... patent application in preparation and on file.

Roy Benson : 1:22:39 I see. I mean... I... I personally... am the only one man opinion. I'm very reluctant... to try to argue with you about this device... or... or a... take umbrage or anything like that. Because of the fact... that this... this looks like a... a very definite... look into the future. And I... I... a... I'm inclined to call it a flying saucer. And at the same time... personally I'm reluctant to... run credence... to the... contact stories that I have heard. I... I'm afraid to say... I... just don't seem to take them so seriously. They don't seem to have much substance.

David Bell : 1:23:12 Do you think... that there are flying saucers... from other planets?

Otis T. Carr : 1:23:16 There are electrified unidentified... to me unidentified... flying objects. We have seen three as mentioned earlier on this program. And we were interested... and we felt that we... were a very good observer... inasmuch as we have already been building models... and tested them out... electrical systems. (?)Preferred(?) by the time that we have seen... first I had these first observations. Now... it's not up to me to conjecture whether or not... they are from other planets... but the evidence... so points. Because... we certainly wouldn't appropriate... three hundred sixty five million dollars... to build one rocket (?)... if we had... such a system. Which we propose... to make possible... we have the system... ourselves... to make possible. But if the system is already in operation... then surely... something is very wrong... with all this money has spent... on an expendable rocket... fifty-five million dollars is no cost at all... to... test out a rocket that may not get two feet off the ground.

Maybe we're a little radical in our thinking. However we must get back to what has been accomplished. We have invented an electrified system which makes it possible for a propulsion system that you put into operation to carry human beings with a fuel system that is not expendable and take them into Space and bring them back in return and this craft could if I had the tools now and as those tools are available in large plants. And if one is available to me we could have this craft on the Moon within six months from this date.
Is that what you're selling
a propulsion system an energy system or are you selling a spacecraft?
we've been talking about a spacecraft exclusively tonight so far. But a this same power package which will energize and propel a circular foil spacecraft can also produce electric current or mechanical motion through gears and pulleys and conventional a motion arrangements.
we have characterized
in our published advertisements as peaceful atomic energy and
a new electrical age. This system that you see here in mock-up prototype is capable of energizing almost any device that today is energized by some other system or using some
fuel other than the electromagnetic energies
that we call Space Forces the forces of gravity
and magnetism.
made it clear that if they will write out an order
to take delivery of a satisfactorily demonstrated full scale craft at a COD price of twenty million dollars. Before we attempt to perform on that order or before we even pick up the order
we will manufacture and demonstrate a miniature prototype model of say ten foot diameter. To prove that our statements are correct and that we can do what we say we will do.
Which contains the electrified horseshoe magnets. And this would rotate in one direction counter clockwise while the center section with the Utron Electrical Accumulator which we described as two inverted cones mouth to mouth would rotates clockwise in the other direction.
in a 45 foot diameter craft that has a central rotation speed to equal a relatively equal the Earth's rotation speed of about five hundred and eighty revolutions per minute.
we're not shooting for a certain rotation for the sake of rotation but for the sake of relativity to the attracted mass. The Earth at eight thousand miles in diameter rotating once in twenty-four hours is relatively equal to a 45 foot craft rotating at five hundred eighty.
it has its own
protectional shield which is its electromagnetic activation.
ionization of these capacitor plates sets up a glow and incidentally these craft will glow very brilliantly with a very soft luminescent light.
this is the shield
of protection. So
we do not have a heat barrier here in forward velocity at all.
we certainly wouldn't appropriate three hundred sixty five million dollars to build one rocket (?) if we had such a system. Which we propose to make possible we have the system ourselves to
make possible.

Roy Benson : 1:24:28 Then what do you think about the principle of let say... suppose... there were certain things about this... that did not pan out right under practical conditions? Is it possible for lets say... rocket size the edges... of these cones and have the things spin by rocket propulsion?

Otis T. Carr : 1:24:43 We don't need it. We have a tremendous thing here... an electric motor operates in identically the same way. We set up an electromotive force... inside a magnetic field... and immediately gets a rotation. So we've... we've actually have here... an improved electrical motor. Which in itself is a circular device... and we say... we have still put the wheel in the air... in another dimension.

Roy Benson : 1:25:18 We might be... living proof... sort of a fantastic... revelation... a... in that... we don't know... maybe certain governments... are actually experimenting and past that crack in the air... and we could sit there... at this panel and talk about it quite ideally. And... to those in the know... that are actually making these... similar devices... they're maybe a little bit upset about the matter... and there's nothing much... they you can do about it apparently. I remember well... prior to... well prior to World War One... there was... there was one article in Collier's. It was call... U235... I believe. And it was an exponential... (?) aluminum atom. Now... during the war... one article written in good faith... no body... (?) or anything like that. There was an article called... The Atom Gives Up. And this was published in... The Saturday Evening Post. And a... it was... I don't know how it got through. 1:26:21 There was no censorship that I know of at that time. It just happened... that the writer of the article had submitted it to... someone who knew nothing about the inter most secrets. The Manhattan Project was... top secret... and so the thing was completely published... and that's all there was to it. And after the article came out... a... I believe... I suppose the FBI or those in charge... stepped in... and they quietly got them out of the library... took as many as they could out of the second hand magazine market... and... they just sort of made the copies disappear as much as possible. Do any of you gentleman happen to know about that?

someone : 1:27:02 (?)(?)

Roy Benson : 1:27:02 Well it is true. That... they... they...

someone : 1:27:05 (?)(?)

Roy Benson : 1:27:08 ... there wasn't much they could do. They just had to... (?) these articles away... they didn't want to make too much of a fuss about it. Because of the fact that somebody might suspect something... so they had to do it quietly. Then... well... in a matter of a few years later... Boom... off went the atomic bomb.

Otis T. Carr : 1:27:27 Before your analogy after the ultimate. We would like to demonstrate the fact that a... this Earth itself that we're... riding on... spinning on it's axis and orbiting around the Sun... is literally a spacecraft... a... demonstrating everything that we're talking about here tonight. It is a... rotating and orbiting at the present constant speed... in a magnetic field. And it is literally a demonstration of a spacecraft.

Roy Benson : 1:28:04 Would you say off hand... that the Earth was in itself was a magnet?

Otis T. Carr : 1:28:09 I would say it is... yes.

David Bell : 1:28:11 Mr. Colton... would you assume... from the measurements here... that we make on Earth... that we... even the stars have a gravitational field.

Norman Colton : 1:28:23 Definitely.

David Bell : 1:28:24 (?)(?)... for the fact... that is has a gravitational field... and that it does not rotate on its axis.

Ben Isquith : 1:28:35 It does not rotate on it's axis?

David Bell : 1:28:38 No... the Moon doesn't rotate on its axis. Wait a minute.

Ben Isquith : 1:28:42 Sure it does.

David Bell : 1:28:43 Its axial rotation is...

Ben Isquith : 1:28:46 One axis... one... one rotation... (?)... to one revolution.

David Bell : 1:28:51 Yes... now... how long does it take?

Ben Isquith : 0:28:54 Twenty-eight days.

David Bell : 1:28:55 Twenty-eight days. Now the Earth takes a... one day... would you assume therefore... that the Earth has... twenty-eight times... as much power as the... Moon?

Ben Isquith : 1:29:06 : No... I... I... I... I wouldn't assume anything. All I know is that... the Moon rotates in twenty-eight days... the Earth rotates in one day.

Otis T. Carr : 1:29:13 Portional are all there. Take the... center of gravity... the Earth is... from the center of the Earth is spinning out. That's why... the engineers and scientists have so easily... evaluated the velocity of the craft that is visiting the Earth. By the... orbit of it... predicated to form the... pattern that has always been set up by... the amount of time... that it takes the Moon to rotate once around the Earth... and the center of the Earth's core. Less than twenty-eight days.... the distance being... two hundred and forty miles or so... you'd be... evaluate the velocity of something... five hundred miles out... something a thousand miles out... two thousand... until you get up to the Moon which makes it... twenty-eight days.

Long John Nebel : 1:30:04 I'm sorry to interrupt you again Mr. Carr... but a... we're going to have to take care of a little business... and a... I don't know.

...........................................................................................................

first half ends : 1:30:12

So we've actually have here an improved electrical motor.
David Bell questions
our Moon rotation
When you're ready for the second half
last update
7 August 2011 ~ 14:22 EST
Transcribed by : Curtis Cooperman
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.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~.Listen 19 April 1958 first half
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