In the subject of
Why & Who:
Recorded
WOR Radio
New York ~ 1958
Long John Nebel Show
Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 19 April 1958 ~ second half
Nikola Tesla
Here is what they
took away from us.
O.T.C. Enterprises Inc.
2502 North Calvert Street Baltimore Maryland
Carrotto Dynamics Inc & Utron Atomic Development Inc.
Inspiration by Tesla :
Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~Listen 19 April 1958 second half
.Margaret Storm~~.~knew Tesla
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla
Nikola Tesla taught Otis T. Carr... how to capture energy for free.
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Long John Nebel... host this show called... The Party Line
This show has four people on the panel plus the host... all questioning
Otis T. Carr & Norman Colton.
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Otis T. Carr
Norman Colton
Long John Nebel
Ben Isquith
Roy Benson
Mel Shironey
David Bell
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Otis T. Carr
19 April 1958
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Otis T. Carr

interview ~ 19 April 1958 ~ second half
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Interview Quotes

Roy Benson : 0:00:01 One addressed to Ben Isquith... the a... lawful attorney from Siberia. (laughter) The word Zero comes from the Italian deuterium or dethero. (sp) Leonard of Pisa wrote a book of Arabic System of Numbers in 1202... 1202 the year. His word... Zero came from the Arabic fifr... f... i... f... r. Or sifer. Which is the translation of the Hindu Sonya... meaning empty or void. Reserve space for me if the Baltimore trip is serving mint Julep... otherwise... in such a minus atmosphere... could not add or subtract a zero. Love from your constant listener... Olga Bofferanzano. (sp) Here is one that seems to be a slight a... beef. C.B. Bower... ask Carr... what about Stevo's (sp) magnetic field theory of propulsion. Impossibility flies tonight with a vengeance... we wish you luck from the Moon. Tim Bower and Steve B.

Long John Nebel : 0:01:13 Would you care to comment on that Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:01:16 No comment.

Long John Nebel : 0:01:17 All right fine... the next one.

Roy Benson : 0:01:18 The next one is a... Maxwell the scientist I assume... mathematically identifies light wave with electromagnetic wave. First found an identical in velocity and property. Carr accepts the electromagnetic theory and denies fundamental life law. If life seed varies... does electromagnetic field vary? That's signed... A. Osgood.

Otis T. Carr : 0:01:47 We were conjecturing about a system outside our own Solar System. Are... and this was conjectural. In our own Solar System... our craft is built upon the measurements that we know... the velocity of light and the electromagnetic wave.

Roy Benson : 0:02:05 There is a little question... I was curious about this thing... that a... these revolving cones seem to pass over... again hard to describe... they seem to pass over... like... intricately revolving magnetic... copper wound coils I should say. Do you supply any motive power to them?

Otis T. Carr : 0:02:27 All of the energy comes from these two cones. This in the vernacular would be a battery. The big novelty here... is that we have put a battery in motion. We have designed it according to... accepted knowledge of the total dimensions of... space matter. And we have activated it... electrochemically... and then we've... used this electrochemical activation to activate the impact craft after which.... we have motion as the feature of this a... accumulator... which in the vernacular is a battery.

Long John Nebel : 0:03:09 A... Ben Isquith.

Ben Isquith : 0:03:10 Mr. Carr I wanted to ask you... this... Mr. Osgood's telegram... I think brought up a very important and a... perhaps even crucial point. Mainly... it is quite true that James Clerk Maxwell demonstrated that... life is an electromagnet radiation. Also... which was an experimentally verified by a... Hurtz... who actually a... laid the foundation for a... modern radio. Now the speed of an electromagnetic radiation... such as radio waves... is also 186,000 miles per second. In other words... light and all forms of electromagnetic radiation is constant at the speed 186,000 miles per second. 0:03:57 Now it's presuming if it were possible... for your craft to travel... faster than the speed of light... it could therefore... travel faster than the speed of electromagnetic radiation. So once it exceeded the speed of 186,000 miles per second... you wouldn't be gaining all this energy from the electromagnetic radiation that your generating... and wouldn't you fall rapidly downward?

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:19 There is a continual falling in Space which in itself a... a... can bring velocity... and also bring you to a... another system.

Ben Isquith : 0:04:32 Well... I was thinking about this thousand miles up.

Otis T. Carr : 0:04:34 Well a... we qualified our answer there by stating... that our craft was designed on the basic known principles of the velocity of light within our system and the electromagnetic wave velocity. Now a... we mentioned conjecturally that in other systems... there could be different velocities... that we are not applying them to our craft... and we don't identify them that way.

Ben Isquith : 0:05:00 Yeah fine... but if you go faster than the speed of light...

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:03 We didn't... well...

Ben Isquith : 0:05:05 You said it was quite possible.

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:06 I said in another system...

Ben Isquith : 0:05:08 All right... in any other system. You can go to Altair 7... I mean... I don't care what you say you use...

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:13 Very possible very possible.

Ben Isquith : 0:05:14 All right... say you're in Altair 7... and a... you're going faster than the speed of light. Now if you're going faster than the speed of light... you're going faster than the speed of electromagnetic radiation... therefore you can not absorb any energy... from the... from the electricmagnet motor that you are generating because...

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:32 Relatively.

Ben Isquith : 0:05:32 fast... it's travelling faster... than it's getting out.

Otis T. Carr : 0:05:35 Relatively we would not be able... to go faster than... unless we were in a system... that (?)commited(?). In our system... of our Solar System... our craft... that we have mentioned now three times... was designed on known principle. We conjectured about other systems. If we go beyond velocity of light in other systems... then conditions within the system would make it possible for us to continue to have power.

Long John Nebel : 0:06:05 Dave...

David Bell : 0:06:07 Ben... You had gotten a little bit beyond where I was... you were going out at the speed of light... and had already gotten to Altair 7. I'm still down here on Earth... and I'm not travelling very fast. Lets assume Mr. Carr... that this vehicle... I presume you call in a vehicle... is it red? What is it... that originally overcomes the inertia of this rotor... and starts the rotor... to moving?

Otis T. Carr : 0:06:43 The electromagnetic force... that was stored in the energy of the... Utron Electrical Accumulator... which... in a vernacular... is a battery.

David Bell : 0:06:55 Now the... Utron Accumulator is... these cones that are... have apexes inverted to each other with the bases together?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:05 That's true.

David Bell : 0:07:07 Now... I know of a... batteries such as the... the zinc carbon battery with the (?)salimoniac(?)... a... a... material in between them. I know the... mercury battery... and... a... various types of... storage batteries such as... the nickel cadmium cell... the... lead sulfuric acid cell... does this come within the scope of any of those?

Otis T. Carr : 0:07:35 Yes it does... and we can use... any of the principles that you've mentioned. What we have here is a... tremendous size... in comparison to other batteries. Therefore an accumulates some cells... it's very easy to put... a thousand two volt cells inside... this one unit... as we see it externally... and have it function very well. In the plan of our... 45 foot craft... we plan to have a 12,000 volt battery. Which will expend an electromotive force of 12,000 volts to energize the a... electromagnets and the capacitor plates and the regenerative coils in turn will... put back into the battery... in this system the same amount of volts as going out. Until there is a breakdown of electrochemicals... and then of course... a... a wear out of the system. This could last as long as our average storage battery in an automobile.

David Bell : 0:08:40 Then in order to start the rotor off originally it would be necessary to... a... cause... a flow of electricity through one set of the coils.

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:52 That's true.

David Bell : 0:08:53 All right... is there any magnetic force in the other set of coils at this particular point?

Otis T. Carr : 0:08:59 They... they are individually... a... operate by circuit breakers. And the first motion begins to start... a repetition the same as we have... in a motor that has a... a... well a... the opposite of a commutator... which is a... a accumulation contact points... where in each coil in energized as the current... a... flows through this coil. Then... this starts the motion... and then a repetition of this motion... brings the... whole motor into phase and in the same sense a... our a... accumulator and the magnets become... speeded up and the circuits are... made and broken... as they rotate.

David Bell : 0:09:51 Now when this is resting... on the... when the entire craft is resting on the ground... a... it seems to me... that the outer portion... would have a certain amount of resistance... a... from friction provided by... the force resting on the ground. And that the... rotor on the inside... would be the only thing to be able to turn... is that correct?

Otis T. Carr : 0:10:19 You're seeing here... a... a model that has a stand that is not a part of the model. The operation is in the smaller model... as we see it here in the power systems... there is no... nothing... a... that a... is not a part of the unit itself. Now... in our design for a spacecraft... this is the power package. Then we have a cabin... and we have a landing apparatus as a part of it. Now this is... can be retractable the same as in our present a... flight systems.

David Bell : 0:11:07 Now I have another thing that puzzles me a bit. There are a lot of things actually that puzzle me. But a... in this particular case where a... the rotor... of the inter rotor... starts rotating in one direction... and the other rotor starts rotating in the other direction... where are the people?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:29 The people are in the third compartment... and this doesn't rotate.

David Bell : 0:11:36 How is it suspended?

Otis T. Carr : 0:11:38 The a... design is rather a... simple... and it is a... incidentally a... for the saucer enthusiast... it's a... somewhat like the... what is known as the... Adamski Cell. In general form... although our streamline is... much better. We have a... the cabin... is the actual center of the craft... and the battery... this accumulator is below the cabin and then the electromagnets are the total outside part of the circular foil... this being the cabin... here.

David Bell : 0:12:22 Do you believe in the Adamski craft a... Mr. Carr? Do you think that a... George had a... a real experience?

Otis T. Carr : 0:12:29 We believe... after having studying the photographs... that it is a highly functional device. We know nothing about Mr. Adamski or his experiences. We do not know the authenticity... but we do know... that such a craft using our principle... could most assuredly become airborne.

David Bell : 0:12:54 Mr. Carr there is something that still puzzles me about this. Is this cabin or bell in which the crew is housed... is located on top of this motivating mechanism. What keeps it from rotation in one direction or the other?

Otis T. Carr : 0:13:15 The shaft of the accumulator... goes through the cabin... and there is a bearing. Now just as this stays stationary when this is rotated... so will the cabin. Because there are two rotating forces. You have... the... (counter)... the clockwise rotation... of the accumulator... the capacitor plates and the regenerative coils. You have a counter clockwise rotation... of the entire circular area of the craft which hold... which is the... a... largest diameter part which... a... housed the electromagnets. Therefore when you have rotation in one direction and counter rotation in the other... the cabin itself is like a barracks. Like the... like the... center part. It's a... you might say it's an extenuation of the shaft.

David Bell : 0:14:20 I... Well I guess so...

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:23 We have... we've built the models sir... and proved them... this is correct.

David Bell : 0:14:29 You built what models sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:31 We have built... actual models... in fact...

David Bell : 0:14:34 Of the spacecraft?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:35 Oh yes... yes we have.

David Bell : 0:14:37 Of the OTC X-1 ?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:39 Yes we have built models sir.

David Bell : 0:14:42 And what could you accomplished with the models?

Otis T. Carr : 0:14:43 We have had six successful airborne flights electromagnetically and one escape flight. One a... we used circuit breakers of various types... a... to shut off power. And a even a... central fuses... that a... that burn... through a switch... we lost one craft.

David Bell : 0:15:07 What was the size of them sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:15:10 The largest model we built and the one we lost was six feet in diameter.

David Bell : 0:15:15 When... when was this sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:15:19 The date a... is a... we prefer not to mention it due to our patent procedure. It was in the past. But we have patent procedures going on now and they're certain... things involved relating dates.

Long John Nebel : 0:15:37 I was just wondering... a... Mr. Carr... and I sincerely hope you... don't mind a... our frank line of questioning. I noticed in this a... beautiful brochure... that is been a... presented to me by the O.T.C. Enterprises. That you constantly... talk about a... Carrotto Gravity Motor... have I pronounced that correctly sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:04 Carrotto.

Long John Nebel : 0:16:04 Carrotto...

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:05 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:16:06 ... Gravity Motor... you mentioned that it's portable. It requires no fixed location or large building in which to function in. You also say a lot of wonderful things about the possibility of this motor. Is it possible Mr. Carr... that you are trying to sell people... the idea of the value of this gravity motor... and you're sort of using the... spacecraft idea as a bit of showmanship to merchandize something else?

Otis T. Carr : 0:16:37 They are two separate Carr packages. The spacecraft utilizes the electrical accumulator... the gravity motor uses the pressure energy of... of the... inertial attractive forces. We have... learned how... to take this energy... and key it... to a work shaft... and get work power... which we truly call free energy because it is. We do not make any part of it. Now in the... a... rather vulgar vernacular sense a few years ago... this would have been classified as... perpetual motion... it is nothing of the sort. We get... free energy in the same manner that a... storied up a... power in a... hydroelectric dam will continue to furnish energy for this dam... so long... I mean through this hydroelectric system... so long as there is a flow of pressure of water into dam to main it. 0:17:43 Now we have learned... that all... a... masses that are smaller than their... the mass to which they're attracted... exert energy. Even this ashtray here... if it weighs a pound... it's a... if it takes a pound of energy to lift it than... then it is exerting a pound of energy. So we have been able to put this to work. We have a... a true gravity motor... and this is what it is. And its functional operation is to produce... a... work power... continuously without any dissipation of the energy that causes it to operate. And we have built models of this... and these models operate and function and we are in patent procedure on them.

Long John Nebel : 0:18:35 Ben Isquith...

Ben Isquith : 0:18:36 Why I was just going to ask... do you also have models of the gravity motor? So a... what's your answer then Mr. Carr? I wonder... you a... in the brochure... and in... with a... Mr. Colton has a... stated tonight... you've offered... the spacecraft to the government... has there been any... to various government agencies... has there been any takers?

Otis T. Carr : 0:19:00 Up to the moment... no sir.

Ben Isquith : 0:19:03 Has... has anyone been interested? I mean... I imagine that a... if I was a government... a... official... God forbid...

Otis T. Carr : 0:19:11 We had...

Ben Isquith : 0:19:12 But if I was... and I had a... seen a demonstration... of a working model... or someone said they could show me a working model of a spacecraft... I would be very interested in going down and seeing it... has any government officials been that interested?

Otis T. Carr : 0:19:28 We have had the government scientists in our workshop. And a... this a... scientist a... stated that the five questions that a... he asked us... were satisfactory answered and that he was satisfied... that our ship could become electrically airborne. This was the evaluation he gave us.

Ben Isquith : 0:19:56 Did you show him a working model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:19:58 We showed him what you see here.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:01 In other words... not a working model?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:03 We did not show him an activated prototype... no.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:08 Didn't he want to look at one?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:10 I think a lot of people want to look at one... and a... they will soon get this opportunity. We're in the mist of patent procedure and until this has been completed... we do not reveal everything.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:22 But since... since that visit by the government scientist... you haven't heard anything?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:28 Not a thing.

Ben Isquith : 0:20:29 What a... are you free... free to tell us what agency he was from?

Otis T. Carr : 0:20:35 Mr. Colton... would you care to a...

Long John Nebel : 0:20:37 I think I can...

Norman Colton : 0:20:39 Go ahead John.

Long John Nebel : 0:20:40 I have the information... don't I?

Norman Colton : 0:20:41 Yes you do.

Long John Nebel : 0:20:43 This is from the Department of Defense... I have a letter that Mr. Colton turned over to me a moment ago... it's a... I can't see the... the rest of it here because... it's stapled down... let me see if I can get this thing... let me work on this letter head.

Norman Colton : 0:21:04 While you're taking that apart... I'll tell you that the two items you... hold there...

Long John Nebel : 0:21:08 You can tell me all you want... I mean... now... it's Department of the Army... offer of the chief... office pardon me... of the Chief of Research and Development of Washington DC. Now as soon as I put this together again... these are from the files of O.T.C. Enterprises of Baltimore. I'll a... read this... a... this letter is addressed to a... Mr. Otis... Otis T. Carr President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated... Baltimore Maryland... and it's dated... 23rd day of December 1957... Dear Mr. Carr... In reply to your letter of 16 December 1957... this office... has considered the results of the visit on the above date... and the discussions with you on 21 November 1957. 0:21:59 The result of these conferences do not justify further interest by the Army in your proposal. Your interest in the Army is appreciated. Sincerely, John A. Org... Colonel. And it says... Chief of the Research Division Office... Chief of R & D. This is not quite clear to me Mr. Carr. In Mr. Org's first paragraph... he mentions about a visit. Did he visit your plant in Baltimore?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:32 The a... there were a group of a... government officials... including a scientist.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:39 That came to your plant... in Baltimore?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:41 That is right.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:43 Could you give us any idea of the size of your plant in Baltimore?

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:46 Well this is really a field office... it's not a plant.

Long John Nebel : 0:22:49 uh huh

Otis T. Carr : 0:22:50 And we have a work shop there. We maintain our offices a... for our... corporate structure and so forth... they're all maintained... and all our records are in this sealed office.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:03 Well now where... where are these a... these model spacecraft? Where are they built sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:09 We've built these in our own private laboratory in the past.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:14 And where's that located?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:16 We've... the only workshop we have at the moment is our present address... that's... 2502 North Callow Street... Baltimore which is our field offices.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:28 In other words... that is the O.T.C. Enterprise as of today?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:33 That is right.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:34 There is no plant... there is no research work that is going on except on the board?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:39 You have seen a... the projections... the architect's preliminary plans...

Long John Nebel : 0:23:44 Yes we have.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:45 ... of the...

Long John Nebel : 0:23:46 Very impressive.

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:47 ... research craft that we plan to build.

Long John Nebel : 0:23:50 When do you plan to build it?

Otis T. Carr : 0:23:54 This is a matter of funds. Now our twenty million dollar offer... for the delivery of a... 45 foot Circular Foil Spacecraft... includes tooling. And tooling includes this total plant... as you saw in the a... preliminary architecture drawings.

Long John Nebel : 0:24:15 WOR Radio... 710 on the dial... in New York.

Otis T. Carr : 0:24:21 Possible to run up close... with a.. all tooling and all furnishings... around ten million. And the other ten million would be... use in the fabrication and checking out testing out of the... circular foil craft.

Long John Nebel : 0:24:35 I'm interested in a clipping that I have from the Buffalo New York Courier Express... dated... December 21st 1957... the article is headed... Army Rejects Offer to Build Spacecraft... I'm sorry... it's dated Washington December 20th. It seems that a spokesman... for the Army made this statement... The model shown does not meet presents or foreseeable needs of the Army. And... The Army has no further interest in the project as presented. Now... if you are correct sir... in your claims... that with this spacecraft... this O.T.C. X-1 Spacecraft. That if you had the opportunity to build it... that you can go to the Moon... in a period of five hours. It would seem to me that the Army or any branch of our armed services... would certainly be... greatly interested... in this project.

Otis T. Carr : 0:25:35 Not all a... developments that a... are... totally new... have often been rejected... which has nothing to do with their value. I think that a... there isn't any question about the... a... terrifying energy in the release of fissionable atomic power... but we do know that... the first (?)... who knew how to do it properly... even had their patent application turned down... and had it rejected. And it was not... it was only... (?)(?) by the United States. And it was only after... one of them... Dr. Fermi was awarded... the Nobel Prize... was his patent even reconsidered. So this a... it is not unusual to find... new and novel things which are far superior to what is accepted... being rejected on all sides. This does not qualify... the item... the actual... we feel... the demonstration of the models... of the building of this principle... and proving it... will speak for itself. And this is not too far off. Although we do have the problem of the amount of funds were mentioned.

Long John Nebel : 0:27:00 Mr. Carr... If you say that sometimes they're not interested in new ideas. Why have they been so interested... in attempting to launch... so many unsuccessful satellites?

Otis T. Carr : 0:27:18 Apparently... a... the rocket enthusiasts are the... ones who... have control of this type of thinking of the moment... I don't know. The a... to me... the... a rocket is a glorified shinning firecracker. This principle has been known for well over 11 hundred years. Newton gave his true evaluation... and of how to... properly use it... and then all of a sudden... a... some Chinese found out... that the function of a rocket... the reaction principle works as well... in a vacuum as it did in air resistance... and this rocket age of today was born. We think that it is as dead as a Do-do already. We think that when our first craft is built... rockets become... museum pieces.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:15 When your first craft is built...

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:18 Right.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:19 You don't feel that there will be any need... for a rocket?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:22 We see no need whatever. To us it's antiquated.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:29 Do you think that any foreign government... may be familiar with the idea that you have in mind... your plan sir?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:34 We think that thousands of people all over the world understand this plan very well.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:39 You think that thousands...

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:41 We do.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:42 ... of people understand the plan?

Otis T. Carr : 0:28:44 We think so... yes sir.

Long John Nebel : 0:28:46 Ben Isquith

Ben Isquith : 0:28:49 What I was wondering... about the fact that... the Army and the Navy is anything... have been pretty lavish with a... research funds concerning Space. Potential spacecraft and rocketry. I... I even remember reading about a... some kids in Iowa... who were members of a high school rocket society... were shooting off their own rockets. And a... they got one up 200 feet or something... and they suppose to have... had some new gimmick... and they got a Navy research contract out of it. 0:29:21 And a... but the Navy is willing to give a research contract to a bunch of high school... boys and girls... who were... working it a rocket society... I don't understand why the department of defense is so blind to a spacecraft... on an entirely new principle. Do you have any comment on that sir? Go right ahead.

Otis T. Carr : 0:29:45 Well we don't either... we haven't refused any offers.

Long John Nebel : 0:29:50 Mr. Carr... we had a gentleman on this program recently... a man by the name of Reinholdt O. Schmitt. Mr. Schmitt lives... someplace in California... and he claims that he had a rather unusual experience... in Kearney Nebraska... on the afternoon of November 5th the year 1957. He claims he was driving in his 1955 Buick... came to an empty piece of property on the outskirts of Kearney Nebraska... and a rather strange craft... was hovering over this empty piece of property. Eventually it landed. There were six occupants in the craft... he was invited in. Four of them were men... two of them were woman... spoke in a high German. And I was wondering... if you're familiar with that story... and if you have any opinion about Mr. Schmitt's story?

Otis T. Carr : 0:30:49 We only know what we read in the papers. And a... it's hard for us to express and opinion. We... know that an electrified craft... can become airborne... we have done it. We know that ours works. We have never seen one... except in the air... at high velocity.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:18 And possibility... the ones that you've seen are from other planets?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:21 There's a... great possibility... yes.

Long John Nebel : 0:31:24 Or is it possibility... that they... a... their origin may be... a... from some... foreign country?

Otis T. Carr : 0:31:31 We questioned that any country... which (?)... are still pursuing... and it seems to be... that all countries are pursing the... missile program... and the so-called... a... inter continental ballistic missile and so forth. If they had an electrified craft... such as we know can be built... why are they proceeding the other way? They are doing now. We don't know this answer... and therefore we can only assume... that what has been see legitimately... and I don't say that a... any of these stories are not... because I don't know... I have no way of investigating them. But we do know... that there are... some very excellent observers... who are scientists and who have seen an electrified object in the air. We know... the Lubeck lights have never been explained. And they were seen by scientists and they were properly photographed and they were certainly luminescent.

Long John Nebel : 0:32:34 Mr. Carr... prior to the year... well I think you did mention... the first fifteen or twenty minutes that a... you started our discussion this morning... that back in the year 1937... that you had this idea of developing... this unusual type of spacecraft... and that you incorporated... that is O.T.C. Enterprises... a... was incorporated in the year of 1955. Between the years... of a... '37 and '55... a... what was your source of livelihood sir... your source of income... primary the development of this?

Otis T. Carr : 0:33:14 No... we worked at a... other tasks... in order to... maintain ourself. And since a... all the funds that we could get our hands on to... to continue experiments. We maintain a...laboratory in New York City... a... up around... 63rd Street and Amsterdam Avenue. From 1938 to... a... close to 1942... and a... we moved to Baltimore... and we opened up our small... experimental workshop there... and maintained it. All our time in Baltimore we were... a... desk clerk... at the Southern Hotel... until we had completed our experiments when I...

Long John Nebel : 0:34:03 You're using the editorial... we again?

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:05 That's right.
We're in the mist of patent procedure and until this has been completed... we do not reveal everything.
What is it that originally overcomes the inertia of this rotor... and starts the rotor to moving?
The electromagnetic force that was stored in the energy of the Utron Electrical Accumulator... which in a vernacular is a battery.
the Utron Accumulator is these cones that have apexes inverted to each other with the bases together?
That's true.
our... 45 foot craft... we plan to have a 12,000 volt battery. Which will expend an electromotive force of 12,000 volts to energize the electromagnets and the capacitor plates and the regenerative coils in turn will put back into the battery in this system the same amount of volts as going out.
there are two rotating forces. You have the clockwise rotation of the accumulator the capacitor plates and the regenerative coils.
You have a counter clockwise rotation of the entire circular area of the craft which hold the largest diameter part which housed the electromagnets. Therefore when you have rotation in one direction and counter rotation in the other
the cabin itself is like a barracks.
We have had six successful airborne flights electromagnetically and one escape flight.
Carrotto Gravity Motor
you mentioned that it is portable. It requires no fixed location or large building in which to function in.
They are two separate Carr packages. The spacecraft utilizes the electrical accumulator the gravity motor uses the pressure energy of the inertial attractive forces.
We have had the government scientists
in our workshop...
this scientist stated that
the five questions that he asked us were satisfactory answered and that he was satisfied that our ship could become
electrically airborne.
the only workshop we have at the moment is
our present address... 2502 North Callow Street Baltimore which is our field offices.
our twenty million dollar offer for the delivery
of a 45 foot Circular Foil Spacecraft includes tooling. And tooling includes this total plant as you saw in the preliminary architecture drawings.
to me... the rocket is
a glorified shinning firecracker. This principle has been known for well over 11 hundred years.
We think that when our first craft is built... rockets become museum pieces.
back in the year 1937
that you had this idea of developing this unusual type of spacecraft...
Carr should give Tesla the credit for where this whole thing came from.
However... Carr is indeed putting it together... and this is exactly what Tesla wanted.
Carr reveals
the function within these hours of interviews with
Long John Nebel
The result of these conferences do not justify further interest by the Army in your proposal.

Long John Nebel : 0:34:06 You're not... you're not a... referring to Mr. Colton?

Otis T. Carr : 0:34:09 No sir no. I'm sorry to editorial we... myself. Then to further answer the question... when we had... met with complete success... we organized our corporation and started to... lay the ground work to... start to build this first craft.

Norman Colton : 0:34:31 To go back to your question a while a go... and your analogy you were building up with the... Earth as a spaceship. Taking another look at the a... mock-up prototype power package there... in front of you. It resembles... the Solar System itself... and as a matter of fact one of the statements in the brochure... which Mr. Carr published back in October 1957... says we have translated the geometry of the Universe. And... and hence that this device... a... miniaturizes... and essentially duplicates the motions of a... the bodies within this Solar System. It... a... reports of its ability... to also miniaturized... their energies. So that in a sense that the... bodies in the Solar System... a... in all time... have maintained their... constant motion. They are... perpetually in those motions... and this is why... sometimes people characterize this power package... as a perpetual motion machine... while we do not make any such claim.

Mel Shironey : 0:35:53 There was a fascinating book... that appeared many years ago... I believe it was called... The Descent of the Atom. It was an anonymously written book... and a... at first it appeared to be... I've have been looking for... this person. It appeared to have be written by a scientist who did not want to give his name... decided to go a little bit off the... and from left field... published a private theory... which incidently has been done.

Ben Isquith : 0:36:21 I published it under my pen name of... Hexsueman Jr.

Roy Benson : 0:36:24 I was afraid of that.

Mel Shironey : 0:36:27 The point of the whole theory... I wouldn't encourage this boy.

Ben Isquith : laughter

Mel Shironey : 0:36:31 Don't encourage him... he's sick. According to this book... a... they figured it... he figured it out this way. He figured well now look... the Solar System is an atom... an atom of what. Looking at the planets... their numbers and so forth... he came to the conclusion... that this large atom... Solar System was an atom... must have been an atom of fluorine. This is no gag. And a... he felt that there were magnitudes involved... and he... I believe stopped at something like the eleventh magnitude. However the book was not very scholarly. And in view of the new found author I can see why. It was not too good actually. In other words the conclusion that... the way he arrived at his conclusions indicated that he was not much of a scientist. Since then... a number of scientists have however speculated with the concept of the Solar System as an atom... or other solar systems as atoms and have been inclined to reject it... on somewhat more valid grounds then the original concept was to be valid. That's all.

Long John Nebel : 0:37:41 Well I'm sorry to interrupt again... but this has been so interesting to me... and I sincerely hope to our eight listeners... that a... may I apologize in advance... to say that I'm going to take care of a little business and as they say in this business... I am going to put them... back to back. We are... we are so mixed up here... with all the equipment that we have. We have miniature a... mock... flying saucers... and a... and I've got a tremendous cup of a... cold tea. And a... we've got all sorts of things around the table. And... let me just tell you... maybe you just joined us. Have you got twenty million dollars? A lot of money... yes it is. That's a real classical buck... twenty million dollars. Let me just tell you what you can get for twenty million dollars. Of course this is the delivered price... the delivered price of the OTC X-1 Circular Foil Spacecraft. And that twenty million dollars... well that's payable in full on delivery. 0:38:49 You know none... none of the... you know type of bits... where no down payment or so much every month or everything. You have to have it all... all at one time. So it's payable in full on delivery with no prior commitment required... and including all tooling and other overhead... to you twenty million dollars. And if you got a friend or a neighbor next door... that would like to get one at the same time... we can make a special deal for you by tossing one extra one in... for an extra four million. So that means twenty-four million for the two of them. And of course I'm talking about a spacecraft. I'm talking about a flying saucer. Now this is not a gag... we're not kidding you this morning... we're really down to Earth and I'm squaring you off. But if you own one... you won't be down to Earth very longer. Because when you get into that O.T.C X-1 Circular Foil Spacecraft... you can go to the Moon in five hours. No I'm... I'm giving it to you straight this morning. 0:39:43 This is just what we are being told... by a... members of O.T.C. Enterprise Incorporated of Baltimore Maryland. And a... if we had a... picture radio this morning... I can assure you... we would have just about the most amazing thing to put on camera. Because we have the plans in front of us... we have the models in front of us. And we have just about everything including some very colorful and beautiful brochures. And that our guests are... Otis T. Carr President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated... and Norman Evens Colton Director of Sales Engineering of O.T.C. Enterprises. Now O.T.C Enterprises Incorporated... are willing to demonstrate that the OTC X-1 craft... will depart from any specified location... in the continental United States... orbit one or more times... outside the Earth's atmosphere... and land its crew safely... within the inter... inter rotunda courtyard of the Pentagon building in Washington or at any other location best suited to public observation. 0:41:04 Now when you hear that... I know a lot of people will say... well now... is John pulling our leg... no we are not pulling your leg. We're telling you... just what we have in front of us... all of these facts. You see the OTC X-1 craft... it's to be of circular foil design... approximately 45 feet in diameter and 15 feet high at the center. And the crew compartment to accommodate at least three persons... in atmospheric comfort and safety under the normal conditions to be anticipated in flight... to within one thousand miles away from the Earth. And the price... twenty million dollars...additional identical units on the same schedule... four million dollars... delivery... approximately twenty-four months at quoted prices... or in less time... subject to upward revision of price... to minimum of approximately six months. My other guests this morning... Mel Shironey... Roy Benson... Ben Isquith... and David Bell. Mel Shironey...

Mel Shironey : 0:42:16 Mr. Carr... L.J. has just finished reading... a paragraph from one of the bulletins that you put out... quoting the price on the OXC-1... I believe that is the correct...

Otis T. Carr : 0:42:32 OTC X-1

Mel Shironey : 0:42:33 OTC X-1 excuse me. You mentioned the price as being twenty million dollars. I have in front of me... an information bulletin number 3 dated December the 23rd 1957. In which you are quoted as having offered quote... to build and deliver to the government... without one penny of risk to the American tax payer... said vehicle. Now how do you... mean to accomplish this in view of the fact that you're going to charge twenty million dollars?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:07 Our plans at this time were that... a... this would be privately financed if we had the order.

Mel Shironey : 0:43:18 Could you amplify on that.

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:21 We had contact with people... who had agreed to privately finance it if we had the order.

Mel Shironey : 0:43:30 And a... why hasn't the order been forthcoming?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:34 Apparently... a... those whom we contacted in the Department of Defense were not interested in our proposal.

Mel Shironey : 0:43:41 Have you contacted them recently?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:45 Not recently... no sir.

Mel Shironey : 0:43:47 Don't you think that it might be a good idea in view of the entire post Sputnik atmosphere in Washington?

Otis T. Carr : 0:43:55 We are open for suggestions along this line... but a... most assuredly all the officials in Washington... a... must know about us... and our plans.

Mel Shironey : 0:44:12 It occurs to me... that if you sent... a letter like this... to the Russian Embassy... you might get a reaction from them... that for some reason would not be forthcoming from our... own government. Should this come about... the resultant publicity that you would be bound to get... would certainly cause attention to what you are trying to accomplish...

Norman Colton : 0:44:39 As Director of a... excuse me... as Director of Public Relations and Sales Engineering for O.T.C. Enterprises... I would like to say... emphatically... that we would not consider or contemplate... any such action.

Mel Shironey : 0:44:53 No... I didn't mean it...

Norman Colton : 0:44:55 I understand how you projected it... but I don't want this to... go out on the air... a... without me a... making sure it is properly qualified.

Mel Shironey : 0:45:05 Well admittedly my interest in this... entire scheme that you're projecting... I use the word scheme for the lack of a better one... without any connotation. In... my interest in this... is that... it would seem to be... the golden opportunity for the United States... to be able to recapture the center of world attention... with regard to scientific advancement. And assuming that... the invention will do... what... the things that it... they will do the things that it was claimed for it...

Norman Colton : 0:45:49 Now we have great hopes... excuse me

Mel Shironey : 0:45:51 ... this will be of paramount interest... on getting the government to be interested enough at least... to take a look at one of the thousands of... working models that you make.

Norman Colton : 0:46:06 We have great hopes that a... the newer approaches to space exploration... such as the proposed space agency and the a... committee a... headed by a... Congressman McCormick... which is a... now studying all of the aspects of approaches to a... space exploration and the manufacture of the license a... to carry man into space. Will provide the a... unity and the singularity and impartiality of thought and approach to the whole subject... that perhaps has not been... practical under the set up of the a... conventional a... defense agencies... whose interest has been apparently confined to rocketry and missiles and the uses of combustible a... chemical fuels of various kinds. We hope and we're so sure that a... Congressman a... McCormick's committee... will explore every possibility relating to... space exploration.

Mel Shironey : 0:47:23 I have a... what at first glance might seem to be a very naive question. If... thousands of working models have been built... as director of promotion... wasn't it at all... possible for you... to... see to it... that... at least one of these thousands were... call to the attention of someone in government. Couldn't you walk into your congressman's office... with this working model and say... look what I've got... lets see if you can use it?

Norman Colton : 0:47:58 It has been said by the philosophers... that if you understand principle... you understand the machine. These principles... as a matter of fact... the OTC X-1 Spacecraft essentially has only two moving parts... rotating on a single central axial or axis. Total a... disclosure demonstration premature to our total security of self-determination and our opportunity to a... manufacture and design prototypes for application of many purposes... a... would be somewhat jeopardized... by premature disclosure.

Mel Shironey : 0:48:41 You quote...

Ben Isquith : 0:48:42 Do you find the government...

Mel Shironey : 0:48:43 Excuse me... excuse me Ben. You quote the... you quote the philosopher... that a... the principle... is easier... to put forward that the... what was that quote again?

Norman Colton : 0:48:54 Well I'll give it to you by a... more familiar analogy... that a...

Mel Shironey : 0:49:00 No... I...

Norman Colton : 0:49:00 If you'd never seen a wheel... it would a... take only one look at a wheel... and you could manufacture wheels.

Mel Shironey : 0:49:07 Well then... then native philosopher says... I'm from Missouri... show me. And it appears to me... that that's the easiest way... and I'm going to a... a... anticipate Ben's question. You're assuming... that the government... would steal... the invention without giving you due credit... as I understand your...

Otis T. Carr : 0:49:29 I wouldn't say that... I wouldn't even subscribe to it. I would say that a... we want to make sure... of our self-determination before we make total disclosure demonstration in private or in public. However... as I said earlier in the program... a... if... anyone were willing to... write out an order... for a full scale craft... before we would pick-up the order... and begin to perform on it... we would be willing to... manufacture and demonstrate a miniature prototype model... that would prove... beyond any doubt... our ability to manufacture the full scale craft.

Long John Nebel : 0:50:17 We're talking this morning with... Otis T. Carr President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated and Norman Evens Colton Director of Sales Engineering. Ben Isquith is with us Roy Benson and Mel Shironey. Do you want to read that telegram Ben please.

Ben Isquith : 0:50:35 Yes... It's from our friend... A. Osgood again. Ben... refer gentleman to... Norbutt Weiner Communications theory. Three hours questions minus zero answers. My field thermo and high velocity research. If Carr correct I burn lab Monday AM. P.S. Doctor Zackaris also MIT should be mildly disturbed. Sighed... A. Osgood.

Mel Shironey : 0:51:03 I have a match.

Long John Nebel : 0:51:06 Any comments there... Mr. Carr?

Otis T. Carr : 0:51:08 No comment.

Long John Nebel : 0:51:10 All right... fair enough... Mel

Mel Shironey : 0:51:15 Yes... I have a number of questions... a... getting back...

Long John Nebel : 0:51:18 Don't forget gentleman... if I can interrupt again... just briefly... we want to get into the... Phototon Gun too... after a little while.

Ben Isquith : 0:51:27 Photon Gun.

Long John Nebel : 0:51:29 Photon I'm sorry. Thank you very much Ben... I'm so happy that you... are here with us this morning... because it's these little corrections that... help to build me to be a bigger and better... Roy Benson.

Ben Isquith : 0:51:40 That's like... humandidity. (sp)

Long John Nebel : 0:51:41 It's humandidity. (laughter) So many people mispronounce that... it's humandidity. That's a Mantler (sp)... a... pronunciation if I'm not mistaken.

Ben Isquith : 0:51:52 It comes from the... Atlantic Statesman

Long John Nebel : 0:51:55 A-lantic... alantic... some people pronounce it... At-lantic. It's... Alantic.

Mel Shironey : 0:52:01 Well Mr. Colton... it seems to me... that you don't have a very high opinion... of the... governmental policies that are now enforced. Because... in one of your information bulletins... number 2 dated... November 28, 1957. You expand... you extend and open hand... to industry... and offer them... let me see if I can find the quote here. ah... I had it here a minute ago... at any rate... you offered them... the opportunity... to view... the... devices that you have... in your laboratory. And for them to... mention their requirements in various industries... and yet you deny... first hand witness... of what has been accomplished in the laboratory... to the United States Government.

Norman Colton : 0:53:02 I'm sorry that the a... announcement that you're reading from... seems to... create that impression. That is not the fact. You see this Utron Electrical Accumulator... a... has many applications... has many forms... many variations. There are applications to many industrial uses. In one sense you might describe it... as an energized armature. Or... in other words... a motor... with a self-contained moving battery. Also capable of continuously... a... re-energizing itself. The a... offer that stands in regard to the spacecraft... applies to government and industry alike. We will only make total disclosure demonstration... a... after we have secured a firm order. In other words... we're not looking for anyone to... a... evaluate our development. Mr. Carr has spent twenty years in this research... he doesn't need any risk money. Either from the tax payers or from industry... for further exploration and development. He is willing to show to anyone... who is a sincere prospective purchaser... but not just to anyone who comes along... out of curiosity.

Mel Shironey : 0:54:33 Well Mr. Colton... I... for the sake of argument... will go along with the premise... that... government by its very nature... would be slow moving... and not at all receptive to... new... devices that would displace... a lot of man power... and a lot of budgetary expenditures that have gone on in the past. However... I fail to see... where some corporation like... General Motors... would not come to you and say... Gentleman... I'd like to see what you have... I'd like to see as much as you'll show me. I'm prepared to... follow through on this... if only I interject parenthetically... to buy up... certain patents if there are such in existence... or in any way to... secure rights and privileges that would prevent a competitor... getting their hands on something that is able to furnish power to automobiles.

Norman Colton : 0:55:42 No O.T.C. products or patents will ever be available on any such basis. This is the a... reason for our... concern to have complete self-determination. So that this new energy system can be made available equally to all people everywhere.

Mel Shironey : 0:56:05 Let me put it to you this way. Has any representative of any automobile manufacturing corporation in the United States... seen fit to communicate with you... regarding this series of inventions?

Norman Colton : 0:56:18 We've had a great many communications... we've not yet had any direct formal official...

Mel Shironey : 0:56:25 After eighteen years...

Norman Colton : 0:56:26 ... negotiations.

Mel Shironey : 0:56:27 After eighteen years... what do you contribute... this flaw to?

Norman Colton : 0:56:32 This is like... the when did you stop beating your wife... I have to accept your... adjective... flaw. I won't use it myself. I will say that a... throughout the development of technology... in this country and some others. There has been a tendency to maintain the status quo. To... carry out existing production... by existing means... as long as there are willing markets. I noticed the other day... in a magazine advertisement... by a... a metal... a... manufacture... an illustration of a... a... gas turbine engine which is predicted to be of the modus power for the automobile of the near future. This gas turbine engine... a... similarly to the a... principles of electromagnetic propulsion which... Mr. Carr has perfected... has been known in principle... in practice... and in prototype for many years. Your automobile is still powered by... an internal combustion engine... and I... am not qualified to tell you why.

Ben Isquith : 0:57:55 Mr. Colton... what does Utron... mean?

Norman Colton : 0:57:59 Utron is a coined word. It's a... a word Mr. Carr put together. From the letter... U... and... tron. U meaning the... a... direction or shape of motion... as applied and used and equated in this accumulator or this a... battery that we described as Utron.

Ben Isquith : 0:58:30 U... represents the direction?

Norman Colton : 0:58:32 U... is the... a... claims symmetrical figure... that a... is a portrait of the wave... you might say.

Mel Shironey : 0:58:47 How do you square the use of plan geometry... with... the concept of the (?) involving...

Norman Colton : 0:58:52 Because they're (?)...

Mel Shironey : 0:58:53 No... you... with the concept... you have involving the fourth dimension?

Norman Colton : 0:58:57 I say... that the letter U as described on paper... it is two dimensional... and therefore... a plain figure... a... which a... is a portrait on paper... of the wave... or the wave motion... which is put to use... to produce... straight line... pressure energy in the Utron Accumulator.

Ben Isquith : 0:59:19 Now I don't know what you said... I mean... I... what what... can you break it down for me.

Otis T. Carr : 0:59:27 I... a... in answering for Mr. Colton... because it is more or less my development. To me there is no such thing as... a completed curve. It only goes half way... it's like a... you only go half way in the woods and then you're coming out. And this is the same. The bisection... of any whole sphere... is its exact center. And one half of it is... primarily U shaped. Because... in magnets... there are always two poles. And a... in a naturally... a... one of the normal ways to show them... is in a U shape... but if it's in a bar magnet... there are still two poles and the shape is still the same. We can only... put a rope half way around a tree... and then it's coming around the other way. And this is true in all wave motions. Now you extend this into...

Ben Isquith : 1:00:33 But... Excuse me... what... what is true in all wave motion?

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:37 If you extend this... into velocity... you get the 4th 5th. And this is a... pattern of the sign wave... definitely the electromagnet wave.

Ben Isquith : 1:00:50 Oh I (?)... I see what you mean... the apex and the cusp are the wave.

Otis T. Carr : 1:00:53 This is true.

Norman Colton : 1:00:54 All motion is relative to all other motion (?). To perform... this serpentine... spiral state... in completing its cycle.

Ben Isquith : 1:01:03 Well... it's not performing... that motion... that motion is the... the graphing an equation representing... the motion.

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:13 But the form...

Ben Isquith : 1:01:14 Well... I'll accept the fact that you call it a... Utron... and that's how you got it.

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:17 Yes... in the... also this form... in its dimensions... is well exemplified in the... geometry of our accumulator.

Mel Shironey : 1:01:28 Why do you refer to this space vehicle as a... fourth dimensional space vehicle?

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:33 Because the geometry of this accumulator is set to be fourth dimensional.

Ben Isquith : 1:01:41 How? I hate to asks these one word questions...

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:44 It represents...

Ben Isquith : 1:01:44 ... and ends up with them.

Otis T. Carr : 1:01:45 To me... the application of space and time... in a laboratory field... and a... electricity as we know it... as being a laboratory force in motion... this is symbolic of it... and when it is activated... it becomes... such. Now a... this may be a little bit difficult to understand... but nevertheless... the very smallest electronic particles of matter have been shown... under the highest a... type of electron microscope to be in... one dimension square.

Ben Isquith : 1:02:22 Electron?

Otis T. Carr : 1:02:24 Yes. They have been...

Ben Isquith : 1:02:26 No

Otis T. Carr : 1:02:27 ...the smallest particle.

Ben Isquith : 1:02:28 No... no one has ever seen an electron under...

Otis T. Carr : 1:02:29 The... the electron particles... have been so... photographed... the smallest particles of matter. This has only come out of the laboratory recently. But the... if this was dimensional... they would definitely be conical and... almost identical in shape of our accumulator.

Mel Shironey : 1:02:48 Well what...

Ben Isquith : 1:02:49 Excuse me Mel... I may have heard wrong Mr. Carr... you said... electrons were photographed by the electron microscope.

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:00 The particles... the smallest particles of matter. Naturally a...

Ben Isquith : 1:03:04 Well a... do you mean Electrons?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:06 Not necessarily.. not exactly electrons... no. But the smallest particles of matter that they've been able to photograph... has come up square.

Ben Isquith : 1:03:14 I still... well how... how does that relate to the fact that... your... your vehicle is a... four dimensional vehicle?

Otis T. Carr : 1:03:24 Cause this... to me... this... photograph is verification... this... from this... atomic laboratory. That... this is truly a Space dimension... because it is the shape of matter. Without a... matter... you couldn't have Space... their synonymous.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:48 We have a telegram.

Mel Shironey : 1:03:49 May I read it? ... have someone translate it for us.

Long John Nebel : 1:03:51 Please comment... type of sound projected by this craft... William Woodward

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:02 There would be... very little sound... at any distance from it. In the... close proximity... it would have a hum... of a high voltage motor.

Mel Shironey : 1:04:18 Sort of a whirling sound.

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:19 This is right.

Mel Shironey : 1:04:20 A humming sound.

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:21 That's right.

Mel Shironey : 1:04:22 I see. Well.. is it that you can't... exactly divulge the... essential principle of this... because of patent... a... the patent situation... or?

Otis T. Carr : 1:04:31 Almost all of the essential principles have... been discussed here this evening.

Mel Shironey : 1:04:37 Well... it does seem vague to me... now I admit stupidity... about the thing actually. But this it the thing... the central unit... the core.

David Bell : 1:04:44 I think you should describe it then...

Mel Shironey : 1:04:46 I'm holding a thing... that look like two... the only thing I can think of are... two... a... loud speakers... placed mouth to mouth... in a simplified form. Two cones mouth to mouth.

David Bell : 1:05:00 I think we could also describe it as... two tops... in other words like a... excellent tops... joined together so they have a point at each end.

Mel Shironey : 1:05:10 That's right... that right... and... actually it's like a thickened flying saucer... higher flying saucer... it comes to a point at the top. Now... what is it that comes from this... is it... is it a high voltage... or is it that you feel you shouldn't... a... go into that detail.

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:25 The voltage is whatever we wish to make it... by design.

Mel Shironey : 1:05:30 In other words this is a battery sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:32 That's right.

Mel Shironey : 1:05:33 The battery then goes through these magnets?

Otis T. Carr : 1:05:37 The battery rotates in this magnetic field. The average armature today in any electrical system is a... usually permeability iron... a... wound with copper. Then... in a magnetic field... either this is a motor... or it becomes a generator... depending upon the need or use. The a... great novelty here is that... a... in the area... in which an armature is normally used... we have a... power unit... which is a battery. And this is a moving power unit.

Mel Shironey : 1:06:19 In other words... you might call this a self-contained power supply... is that right?

Otis T. Carr : 1:06:23 That is right.

Mel Shironey : 1:06:24 Now if it's a self-contained power supply... such as lets say an A.T. Line with a transformer or something which is part of a power supply. It is a power supply in fact.

Otis T. Carr : 1:06:33 Right.

Mel Shironey : 1:06:34 How would this... lets say... a... generator... or do you want to call it... I... I... maybe I'm using the wrong word. How would this... emanator... how would this gather... additional energy from outside?

Otis T. Carr : 1:06:48 We... this... this is due to its... circular motion. The electrical forces are always in motion... when they manifest. Now... we have a... cycles from alternating current... AC... it's usually 60 cycles... a second... 3600 a minute. So we have discovered in our experiments... that there is a space cycle... related to electricity... and as/when we join this cycle... we get energy from it.

Norman Colton : 1:07:27 Getting back for a second... to the physical description of the... Utron Accumulator. I think I can help give your... listening audience at home... a graphic picture of what it is were looking at...

Long John Nebel : 1:07:40 Is this what is called the Utron?

Norman Colton : 1:07:42 Yes this is the... Utron Electrical Accumulator.

Long John Nebel : 1:07:44 Double pointed top?
this device miniaturizes and essentially duplicates the motions of the bodies within this Solar System. It reports of its ability to also miniaturized their energies.
Earth's first satellite
launched by Russia Sputnik
4 October 1957
It has been said by the philosophers that if you understand principle... you understand the machine. These principles as a matter of fact the OTC
X-1 Spacecraft essentially has only two moving parts rotating on a single central axial or axis.
You're assuming that the government would steal the invention without giving you due credit...
Less than two years later members of the United States government confiscated everything
and broke up Carr's group.
before we would pick-up the order and begin to perform on it we would be willing to manufacture and demonstrate a miniature prototype model that would prove beyond
any doubt our ability to manufacture the full scale craft.
this Utron Electrical Accumulator has many applications has many forms many variations. There are applications to many industrial uses.
In one sense you might describe it as an energized armature. Or in other words a motor with a self-contained moving battery. Also capable of continuously re-energizing itself. The offer that stands in regard to the spacecraft applies to government and industry alike.
No O.T.C. products
or patents will ever be available on any such basis. This is the reason for our concern to have complete self-determination. So that this new energy system can be made available equally to all people everywhere.
the principles of electromagnetic propulsion which Mr. Carr has perfected has been known in principle in practice and in prototype for many years. Your automobile
is still powered by an internal combustion engine and I am not qualified to tell you why.
U... is the symmetrical figure that is a portrait of the wave you might say.
I say that the letter U as described on paper it is two dimensional and therefore a plain figure which is a portrait on paper of the wave or the wave motion which is put to use to produce straight line pressure energy in the Utron Accumulator.
We can only put a rope half way around a tree and then it's coming around the other way. And this is true in all wave motions. Now you extend this into...
this form in its dimensions is well exemplified in
the geometry of our accumulator.
Because the geometry of this accumulator is set to be fourth dimensional.
the application of space and time in a laboratory field electricity as we know it as being a laboratory force in motion this is symbolic of it and when it is activated it becomes such. Now this may be a little bit difficult to understand but nevertheless the very smallest electronic particles of matter have been shown under the highest type of electron microscope to be in
one dimension square.
The electron particles have been so photographed the smallest particles of matter. This has only come out of the laboratory recently. But if this was dimensional they would definitely be conical and almost identical in shape of our accumulator.
how does that relate to the fact that your vehicle is a four dimensional vehicle?
this photograph is verification from this atomic laboratory.
That this is truly a Space dimension because it is the shape of matter. Without matter you couldn't have Space their synonymous.
If you extend this into velocity you get the 4th 5th. And this is a pattern of the sign wave definitely the electromagnet wave.
Almost all of the
essential principles
have been discussed
here this evening.
The great novelty here is that in the area in which an armature is normally used we have a power
unit which is a battery. And this is a moving
power unit.
how would this gather... additional energy from outside?
this is due to its circular motion. The electrical forces are always in motion when they manifest. Now we have cycles from alternating current... AC... it's usually 60 cycles a second 3600 a minute. So we
have discovered in our experiments that there
is a space cycle related to electricity... and as/when we join this cycle we get energy from it.
Carr reveals the function. He will continue to tell how and why this works in the hours of interviews ahead.

Norman Colton : 1:07:45 Double pointed top. If... a... you have a pencil handy... and you will draw a square on a paper...

Long John Nebel : 1:07:53 In just one moment please. This is WOR Radio... you're station in New York... 710 in the dial. I would suggest for all of our listeners... to get a pencil and paper. And a... I'll give you a couple of minutes to possibly walk around the house and search for that paper and pencil... and then we'll have... Mr. Colton... a... describe the shape of this. And I think with this idea that he has in mind... that everybody will have an actual drawing... right in their a... own home this morning... and a... they'll know just what the shape of the... a... the Utron is. 0:08:37 My guest this morning... Otis T. Carr President of O.T.C. Enterprises Incorporated of Baltimore. Norman Evens Colton Director of Sales Engineering. Mel Shironey advertising executive is with us... Ben Isquith the cyberistrican... Roy Benson the comic... and Dave Bell. You... I think you wanted to... take over this morning... is that right Mel?

Mel Shironey : 1:09:04 Yes. I'd like to ask another naive question. Why is it... that a patent has not been taken out on these inventions? I address this to either Mr. Carr or Mr. Colton.

Otis T. Carr : 1:09:19 May I hear the question again please.

Mel Shironey : 1:09:21 Why is it that a patent has not been taken out on these inventions?

Otis T. Carr : 1:09:24 Applications are on file.

Mel Shironey : 1:09:26 (?)...

Otis T. Carr : 1:09:28 They were the statutes of being on file. The... all of this is in the hands of our attorney. Our plan of introducing this... a... calls for various stages of development work and completion of such work before we started to proceed... to make public... which... a... in this instance means to patent. This a... the definition of patent... is to make public. And in this instance we are now proceeding along this line with... it was necessary... according to our plans... to... have this as one of the final stages... rather than the beginning.

Mel Shironey : 1:10:12 A few moments ago Mr. Colton was in the process of making public... the design... at least on the... outside.

Norman Colton : 1:10:22 Yes.

Long John Nebel : 1:10:22 We want to do that... one quick question... and then I hope that everybody has the... pencil and paper ready. I'd like to ask you one additional question... Mr. Carr... you say the... you were incorporated in 1955... that is O.T.C Enterprises... right sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:10:41 That's right.

Long John Nebel : 1:10:42 Ah... have you at any time... since the start... of it... since 1955. Have you at any time... made any effort to sell stock... publicly?

Otis T. Carr : 1:10:58 We have not made any public offerings of stock.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:01 Never have?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:02 No sir.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:03 Private offering sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:05 We do not... care to discuss a stock situation. We are not here... to interest people in stock. And a... we are in the processes of... the a... setting up the machinery that will make it possible... for a public offering. But... during this stage... we don't care... to discuss this... in any manner.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:33 What month in the year 1955 were you incorporated sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:37 I believe November sir.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:40 November... so it's approximately two and a half years... have lapsed... since the time that you... formed the corporation?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:48 That is right.

Long John Nebel : 1:11:49 Well... what was the reason for forming the corporation sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:11:53 To do business under a corporate structure. There is very many... many reasons for this...

Long John Nebel : 1:11:59 I'm familiar with some of them too.

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:01 Yes sir.

Long John Nebel : 1:12:02 Would you tell me some of the reasons that you've incorporated?

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:05 In this particular instance... all of my trademarks... copyrights... and patent rights have been assigned to the corporation... O.T.C. Enterprises... which is the holding company. Owning outright... the rights... of these various developments... of mine.

A few start talking : 1:12:23 ... ... ...

Long John Nebel : 1:12:25 The... the name O.T.C Enterprises... was of no value in 1955... so if the corporation had this as an asset... they had nothing at that time... is that right sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:12:40 That's right.

Long John Nebel : 1:12:41 As far as O.T.C. Enterprises. Today... this possibly is... is a very important name... in your particular field. The next question... Mr. Carr. If you set up a corporation... and the corporation has... as an asset... O.T.C. Enterprises and things like that... and also some plans... if the plans are not patented... what protection or what actual assets does the corporation have?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:09 The corporation has the assets of a... of... assignments and trademarks...

Long John Nebel : 1:13:18 But trademarks you can't do so much unless they are of some value sir... is that true?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:23 And... of a... well the... trademark Carrotto is becoming of value... because it's a matter of a... public knowledge... and a... so is Utron.

Long John Nebel : 1:13:34 Valuable in what way sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:36 Well... because of a... identification.

Long John Nebel : 1:13:39 In other words... what could... what. Supposing that... that you decided to get out of this business sir. In other words a... the stockholders decided to dissolve the corporation... would the name Utron... that trademark... would it be of any value sir? Would there be any salable?

Otis T. Carr : 1:13:56 We think it would be... yes sir.

Long John Nebel : 1:13:59 For what?

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:00 For identification... in goods such as we plan to merchandise.

Long John Nebel : 1:14:06 Well... in other words... if I don't have the patent... if I don't have the knowledge of how to... build a Utron... if there is such a thing as a Utron. What could I do with the name? And I'm not trying to be facetious... I can't make a toothpaste and call it Utron toothpaste.

Otis T. Carr : 1:14:20 The... the names have a bearing upon these devices. Now the devices are in the processes of being patented... and the... or the applications... so the corporation owns these. It also owns... our identification of these various things... plans... and it will own... this research institute... which we plan to build. So it a... can expand as a corporate structure. We plan to license a... our developments... to... other producing manufactures.

Long John Nebel : 1:15:02 Well... in other words... you will not be manufactures?

Otis T. Carr : 1:15:06 No... we do not plan to manufacture. Our is...

Long John Nebel : 1:15:07 What would you do with...

Otis T. Carr : 1:15:08 ... research and development.

Long John Nebel : 1:15:09 ... very interest... what would you do with all the buildings sir... that we've had the pleasure of seeing the... the a... architect a... drawing up?

Otis T. Carr : 1:15:18 Those... they are... completely for research. This we call... the Space Research and Free Energy Institute. And here we will... explore... all the uses of... Utron Electrical Accumulator. From hearing aids to spacecraft. It a... could be used to power a wrist watch or it could be used to... power a spacecraft. And in these applications we hope to come up with perfection of design... and perfection of prototype models... and then license the same... to producing manufactures.

Long John Nebel : 1:15:52 Was there... was the... one of the reasons for not having... for making applications for a patent... prior to... the present time... was this due to... a lack of funds... sir?

Otis T. Carr : 1:16:05 No sir. It was... our planning... was this way... and it is... proving to be successful.

Long John Nebel : 1:16:14 What manifestation of success... has a... has been seen?

Otis T. Carr : 1:16:19 Well... we have identification... we are known... a... we have received a... very favorable publicity... we feel we're receiving some tonight. I know that if we tried to buy it... we couldn't. Nevertheless a... we're getting it. All of this... has a tangible value. Because it is identification is expanding... our identity to a larger and larger audience.

Long John Nebel : 1:16:54 Mr. a... Colton... would you care now to... try to work this out with our listeners... and I sincerely hope that a... they all have a pencil and paper and possibly you can a... describe to them how they can draw at home... a... a... facsimile of a Utron.

Norman Colton : 1:17:16 Yes sir... you can have a very good picture of what it is we are speaking of... when we... use the term... Utron Electrical Accumulator. You take your pencil and draw... four lines... to form an open square on paper. When you have your square... you should draw a straight line from one point of the square... to an opposite point... and you will have... two right angle triangles. Now if you convert the line you've just drawn... into a small ellipse. You'll begin see the appearance of... two inverted cones... the base of which form a circular equator. 1:18:06 So while you started with a square... you now have two cones. Obviously the base of the cone is a circle or completely round as we describe it... and you have the device we described as completely round and completely square... the Utron Electrical Accumulator. To... a... carry this out farther if you like... to see it as the central... a... motivating power core of a circular foil craft... which is most often described as... a flying saucer. Put one point of this square... in a shallow saucer that you can draw just below it... invert another saucer over it... at the top over the opposite point... and you will see the approximate complete face of the... a... first prototype O.T.C. Circular Foil Craft.

Mel Shironey : 1:19:13 Where would the cabin be in this?

Norman Colton : 1:19:15 The cabin... would be... the equivalent of a cup... inverted on the top saucer.

Mel Shironey : 1:19:26 There is a model of the saucer... on the table in front of you. Would you point out where the... cabin would be. Is the cabin on this?

Norman Colton : 1:19:37 The cabin is not on this. This is a card board mock-up to show the principle of counter rotation of the... a... outer ring which contains the a... magnetic field of the energized horse shoe magnets... and the... a... inter rotating... a... Utron Electrical Accumulator. Roy Benson is holding up... a... one of the... wooden mock-ups of the Utron Accumulator. Which is taken apart... separated the two cones in half... and it a... questioning the appearance of the... a... cavity in the center of each... which is a hemisphere. And when the two cones are put together... you have a hollow sphere... a... which is the cavity that contains the... a... electrolyte... which would be used in some of the applications of the accumulator. So that... we have basically... a... the well known application of... a... dissimilar in the presents of an electrolyte... to produce... what is known as... the galvanic action... or the generation of an electromotive force.

Mel Shironey : 1:20:52 What... of what value... is the term... completely round and completely square... apart from its obvious redundancy?

Norman Colton : 1:21:07 Your questions... a... multiply within themselves... so I'll... I'll take it as you gave it. It is completely round and completely square as Mr. Carr... said before... because it is... his definition of the geometry... of the basic space form... or the basic form... of the... shell of all matter... large or small... relatively as we describe it.

Mel Shironey : 1:21:37 As you... when you say... we... you're referring to...

Norman Colton : 1:21:41 Our literature.

Mel Shironey : 1:21:42 To your literature.

Norman Colton : 1:21:43 It is a... course entirely... a... Mr. Carr's development from his discernment of... a... the motions of natural bodies and a... natural universal energies. It is the definition... of the... a... terminal motion... of universal energy... in what we call... Space.

Mel Shironey : 1:22:07 It appears to me... that... the concept of Space... has been... put forth... a good deal differently... by... such men whom you quote... as Einstein. His concept of Space... does not at all... jive with what... you say... as far as... square and round.

Otis T. Carr : 1:22:30 I... I interrupt to say... was his greatness... none of which... ever certainly want to (?) upon... he did not invent... a spacecraft... we have.

Ben Isquith : 1:22:42 He was a mathematician.

Mel Shironey : 1:22:45 That... that remains to be seen by the way. Because... while I have... profound respect... for... the amount of... work that has been done. I must remain a skeptic... because I haven't seen it. I have seen mock-up... and I've seen models... and I have heard... very complicated theory... none of which I understood. And a... I would need a little bit more... to assume that such a craft... has already been built. Especially... in view of the fact... that some of the promotional materials... that I have before me... mentions... that you have... built... thousands of working models... and fairly early into the program as I recall... the figure... six... was mentioned.

Otis T. Carr : 1:23:42 There must be some misunderstanding here. We have made... thousands of experiments... which were made... with models. Success was not always there. We have achieved... success in six experiments.

Mel Shironey : 1:24:00 I see... well... I... I will find... this quote from the material... I mentioned... I don't have it in front of me... but it specifically mentioned... that you have built... thousands... of working models.

Norman Colton : 1:24:15 Those would be the animated models would be a better term. I don't know where... you're quotes come from. But a... we've consistently said... that Mr. Carr has made... thousands of models... but we've... a... consistently said that... he had made only... six models which have achieved...

Mel Shironey : 1:24:33 In my fairness... in fairness to you... I have found the source... it comes from an AP despatch. And it says... he says... he has built thousands of working models. This is a quote... of a quote... which... may not be... very accurate.

Ben Isquith : 1:24:42 It's a metaphor.

Norman Colton : 1:24:52 I would say that a... Ben Isquith... on your left... has added... a.. confidence to his respect because I believe I saw him... write out a check for twenty million dollars a few minutes ago.

Roy Benson : 1:25:06 He's a mama's boy and made it anonymous too.

Ben Isquith : 1:25:08 You can cash it...

Otis T. Carr : 1:25:08 I don't see the check right now.

Ben Isquith : 1:25:10 You can cash it... and get twenty million dollars... I'll split with you.

Roy Benson : 1:25:13 Look there is something here... that I couldn't help notice...and that was... a reference in a very elaborate folder that you have... certainly a thing in order for... profound congratulation. Beautifully gotten up from an artistic point of view. It... it would... it makes me look... it makes me think... it's a kind of a thing... that you might expect to see from International businesses Machines... or something.... you know... something they might hand out as a deluxe edition... showing their various models. Now in it... you make mention of a... photon gun... and you say... quote... this is primarily a development for use outside the Earth's... Earth's atmosphere. We are entering an age of space flight... and the use of solar energy is... in such is practically unlimited. Okay fine. But we have not gotten outside the Earth's atmosphere. So what good would a... would a photon gun be at this time?

Otis T. Carr : 1:26:10 As soon as we build our craft... we will use such. Now incidently... in using this word... gun... we're using it as a reaction principle rather than as a weapon. This is a... probably should not have been... a... so stated there... but nevertheless... it is a gun and in fact... that a... that a... by... bending rays of solar energy... at right angles with a reception... and placing them through a certain chamber... we have been able to get... a reaction. And wherever there is a reaction... we can get power... we can get force from it. So that we... we feel... that a... outside the atmosphere... new systems of propulsion... even beyond our own of electromagnets will make itself apparent.

Long John Nebel : 1:27:03 Back with you again tonight at midnight. And I sincerely hope that you'll be with us. And you might tell some of your friends and neighbors about... The Party Line. We're around from midnight to five-thirty... six mornings during the week. Monday mornings we get started at one... right after Jean Shepherd and we continue through... from one until five thirty... that means... we're around for some thirty-seven and a half hours a week. But I'll be back with you in just a few minutes... to say... good night.

...........................................................................................................

end of interview : 1:27:32
We plan to license our developments to other producing manufactures.
This we call the
Space Research and Free Energy Institute. And here we will explore all the uses of Utron Electrical Accumulator. From
hearing aids to spacecraft.
Everyone listening must know that this knowledge of this shape... came from Nikola Tesla. Hard to believe Otis T. Carr
came up with this idea
all by himself.
what value is the term... completely round and completely square apart from its obvious redundancy?
It is completely round and completely square as Mr. Carr said before because it is his definition of the geometry of the basic space form or the basic form of the shell of all matter large or small relatively as we
describe it.
It is entirely Mr. Carr's development from
his discernment of the motions of natural bodies and natural universal energies. It is the definition of the terminal motion of universal energy in what we call... Space.
This is not entirely...
Mr. Carr's development.
This far out science could only come from another planet.
Tesla was from Venus.
Mr. Carr... it was Tesla who taught you how to capture electrical energy from Space... give him credit.
Return to Otis T. Carr page... for more of his interviews
last update
7 August 2011 ~ 14:22 EST
Comments Welcome... via email
Transcribed by : Curtis Cooperman
Venus Tesla Connection introduction ~ home page
.Otis T. Carr~~~~~~knew Tesla
~Listen 19 April 1958 second half
.Margaret Storm~~.~knew Tesla
.Arthur H. Matthews~.knew Tesla